>> We choose to go to the Moon
in this decade
and do the other things,
not because they are easy,
but because they are hard.
Because that goal will serve
to organize and measure the best
of our energies and skills.
>> It's been 50 years
since we've been to the Moon,
and we've got a great program
called Artemis.
We're going back.
The Apollo program was a test
for the American people
that you can do
what you set out to do.
All it took was turning to it
and making it happen.
>> We are go for our mission
to the Moon at this time.
>> Engines on five, four,
three, two...
All engines running.
Launch commence.
Lift off, we have lift off
49 minutes past the hour.
>> I think the characteristics
that-that I remember most
on the Saturn V was the noise.
The noise was enormous,
and it was almost impossible
to communicate.
>> We're go.
Think tight, we're go.
>> Tranquility Bay here,
the Eagle has landed.
>> The landing to me
was a great celebration.
The nation was almost euphoric.
>> That's one small step
for man,
one giant leap for mankind.
>> There are so many things
that we can eventually learn
about our universe
and the spacecraft
that we use exploring.
[ music ]
>> We are a nation of explorers.
During Apollo, we were
on National TV
literally everyday because
we were doing something visible
that Americans could see
and they could feel and say,
look what we are doing.
And I believe Artemis is
going to come up and say,
look what we are capable of
and what we are doing now.
[ music ]
>> Artemis will stand on
the shoulders of Apollo.
They're gonna have the eyes
of the world on them
when they start down this trail.
>> The science of a spaceflight
is one that will continue
to inspire going to the Moon.
It generates technology,
more in communications,
more computer technology,
more sophistication
in manufacturing that help us
in everyday life.
>> We have a generation
that is ready, a generation
with that technology,
a generation with the education.
Artemis represents
the future in space.
It is our next big step,
and it is time to take it.
>> I think that deserves
a round of applause.
That was amazing.
[applause]
Good morning.
I'm William T. Harris,
President and CEO here
at Space Center Houston.
We're a Space Exploration
Learning Destination dedicated
to bringing people in space
closer together.
We also have the privilege
of serving as the official
visitor center
for NASA Johnson Space Center,
the home of astronaut training
and mission control.
We share the story of
human space exploration
past, present, and future with
more than 1.25 million visitors
annually from around the world.
Our mission is to reveal
how science and humanity
power space exploration.
Space exploration has
a great impact
to our life on Earth.
We benefit from a wealth
of innovation,
scientific advancements,
and it broadens our views
of the world and beyond.
Today, we are absolutely
thrilled to celebrate
the 50th anniversary
of the Apollo 17 mission,
the final human mission
to the Moon
during the Apollo program.
The Apollo set the course
for Artemis, the next era
of human space exploration.
Just this past Sunday,
NASA's Orion spacecraft
successfully splashed down,
fulfilling a milestone
with Artemis 1
as we prepare to return
to the Moon,
however, with a new purpose.
Space Center Houston houses
a wide variety
of Apollo-era artifacts
including America,
the Apollo 17 Command Module.
During your visit, please
be sure to touch a piece of
the Moon brought back to Earth
by the Apollo 17 mission
at our Lunar Vault exhibit.
See the Apollo 17 Command Module
and experience
our new exhibit, Artemis.
Today, we'll discuss
lessons learned
from the Apollo era
from the legends who lived it
and paved the way for the future
of space exploration.
And we'll hear from
current NASA experts
who are realizing our future.
We will revisit the last steps
that we took on the Moon,
and look at the journey
we've launched to return.
Thank you all to
Space Center Houston members
for joining us,
and your support helps
make possible all we do here.
We have many staff from
Johnson Space Center joining us
in this audience.
Thank you for your service
to human space exploration.
I also wanna recognize
two distinguished explorers
who are with us today,
Apollo 13 astronaut Fred Haise.
[applause]
And Shuttle-era astronaut,
Tim Kopra, who served
on expeditions 20 and 46
on the ISS.
Tim, I think you're here.
Yes?
Oh, there you are.
[applause]
We're also honored to be
joined by the families
of our legends and explorers.
Jan Evans, who is the wife of
Apollo, uh, 17 pilot, Ron Evans,
and many members
of the Evans family.
Jan.
[applause]
Also with us is
Tracy Cernan Woolie
and Barbara Cernan Butler,
daughters of Gene Cernan
and members of their family.
Tracy, Barbara.
[applause]
I also wanna recognize
we're joined by members
of the Roosa family,
Stuart Roosa was the pilot
for Apollo 14.
So Roosa family, welcome.
[applause]
So a little bit of housekeeping.
After our presentation,
we'll take questions
from the audience,
so please stay with us
for the discussion.
We have a QR code that
will be on the screen,
so you can use your camera
to take a picture of that,
and you'll be able
to text your questions
to our moderator.
It's now my great pleasure
to introduce the moderator
for today's program,
Vanessa Wyche, who is
the Center Director
of NASA Johnson Space Center.
Please join me in
welcoming Vanessa.
[applause]
>> Thank you, William,
and, uh, I also extend welcome
and greetings to everyone,
and especially
to our special guests
that are joining us today.
Uh, 50 years ago this month,
the final mission in
the Apollo program launched
into the night sky.
The crew of Apollo 17 completed
humanity's last voyage
to the Moon.
Harrison Schmitt, the first
scientist to investigate
the Moon was a geologist
who had been part of
the backup crew for Apollo 15.
On Apollo 17, he served as pilot
of the Lunar Module Challenger.
And Eugene Cernan was commander.
And Ronald Evans piloted
the com-Command Module America.
And as William said,
you guys can actually see,
uh, that particular,
uh, spacecraft here
at Space Center Houston.
But at the end of
their third and final EVA,
Commander Gene Cernan
spoke the now famous quote,
"We leave as we came
and God willing,
we shall return
with peace and hope
for all mankind."
And we're so very excited
that through Artemis, we are
now going to be returning,
and returning
in a sustainable way.
So very, very proud of the work.
As William said, you know,
we were able
to successfully launch Artemis
the rocket with Orion on top.
Orion had a very
successful mission,
and then we had
splashdown on Sunday.
Uh, it's just
an incredible, incredible time,
and that was an uncrewed mission
which now sets us up
for our crewed mission
on the next Artemis launch,
Artemis 2.
But Apollo 17's mission was
successful, collecting
the largest batch of
lunar samples,
one of which we actually
opened this year
for study and investigation.
But they set records
for the longest time
in lunar orbit
and on the lunar surface.
In the intermediary
50-year period from Apollo 17
to today, NASA's
Human Spaceflight Program
has been working
in Low Earth Orbit
and preparing to pick up where
the Apollo program left off.
The 135 launches of
the space shuttle program,
the construction of
the International Space Station,
which we've now had
our astronauts living off
this planet
for over 22 continuous years.
I think that deserves
a round of applause.
[applause]
But we've learned many lessons
living and working
in microgravity environment,
which is now laying
the groundwork for us
to pursue Artemis,
the Moon to Mars program.
NASA's Artemis program
is charting the course
for an exciting new era
in human lunar exploration,
and this time when we go,
we're going to be going
in a different way.
We're going to be going with
our International partners.
We're going to be going
with commercial industry.
And when we go,
we will have the first woman
and the first people of color
that will go to the Moon.
And we will establish
a long-term science
and exploration capabilities
to inspire the next generation
of explorers,
the Artemis generation,
just as Apollo did.
Today we have the honor of
hearing from Apollo 17 legends
and Artemis leaders to discuss
the past, present and future
of human space exploration.
I'm going to introduce our panel
and they have
very distinguished careers.
If I were to give
their entire bios,
we'd be here the entire time.
[laughter]
So we're just going to have
some very abbreviated, uh,
introductions of them.
So first, our first panelist,
uh, is Gerry Griffin,
and he's our Apollo 17
lead flight director.
[applause]
Gene Kranz,
Apollo 17 launch flight director
Moon and Earth.
[applause]
And joining us remotely
is Charlie Duke,
Apollo 16 Moonwalker
and Apollo 17 backup
lunar module pilot.
[applause]
We also have with us
from the Artemis generation
Jessi Horelica,
and she's an Artemis
flight controller.
[applause]
We have Antja Chambers,
and she's an Artemis engineer.
[applause]
And we have Reid Wiseman,
NASA astronaut.
[applause]
So we'll go into
our panel discussion.
So as we are celebrating
the 50th anniversary
of Apollo 17
on the heels of an incredible
Artemis 1 mission,
it's a real honor to be here
with our legends
and with our leaders.
As we stand on the shoulders
of you giants,
we want to start by asking
our Apollo legends
a few questions.
So I'm going to start
with you, Gerry.
You were the lead
flight director on Apollo 17.
Can you tell us what
that entailed?
What was it like preparing
the Mission Control Team
for what became
the longest mission
of the Apollo program?
What made 17 different?
>> Well, it-it wasn't
much different than--
let me answer that first--
than 16.
Um, people have asked me
sometimes, were we kind of
starting to fade out
and fall off?
Not at-not at all.
We were as diligent on 17.
Uh, we certainly didn't want
to end with a failure
of-of a mission
after-after we had been there
and-and done well.
Uh, a lead flight director
is, uh, interesting position.
It is a primarily--
and I discussed this
this morning with the head
of the flight director office
for Artemis--
that, um, it's the same.
It's a pre-flight,
a pre-mission responsibility.
You're in charge of pulling
all the pieces together
and you've got--
you spend more time with
the crew, probably,
than the other flight directors,
uh, talking through
mission rules, flight plans,
emergency procedures, all of it.
And you also got the network
to worry about, uh,
your tracking systems
and all that.
Um, once the base of
the rocket clears the tower,
a flight director
is a flight director.
It's the guy sitting
in that seat or the gal now
sitting in that seat
that, um, has to make
the final go, no go decisions
after a lot of help
and a lot of input.
So the lead flight director
is a-is a responsibility
that's a big one,
but it was primarily pre-flight.
Um, and it-it worked
extremely well the whole time,
uh, throughout that program.
Uh, it worked very well.
>> So, um, on Apollo 17,
I know there was a lot of focus
on the sign on that mission,
uh, the distance that
the Rover traveled.
Um, can you tell me
about the preparations,
the planning,
getting ready for that?
>> Yes, one of the things
that happened,
it actually started with
the last three missions,
15, 16, 17,
had-had a rover.
And that made the exploration
of the Moon a lot-a lot better,
because they could
traverse farther.
And of course, we always had 'em
in walk-back distance,
and it was our key.
So it was kind of
the constant measure
of how far we could go.
But those last three missions
were very similar
And they were--
but they built on each other.
And 17 was really the capstone
of the program,
because it was the longest EVAs.
The lunar module had--
had been modified to give 'em
a little more oxygen,
a little more time
on the surface.
So we had-we had
the ability in 17
that we didn't have earlier.
And it really did work.
And by that time,
I can-- and this--
Gene and I have
talked about this.
We never took the focus
off our crew's safety,
but in those latter missions,
we finally got to the point
we knew what we were doing
and why we were going,
and it was to explore the Moon.
So in the control center,
I can tell you,
particularly the flight
directorate position,
there was a lot more emphasis
on the science.
And we went out in the field
and trained with the crews,
which we hadn't done
prior to Apollo 15.
And so we went out
to remote sites here in the US
and watched how they worked
with the science guys
and how we could enhance that.
So it was a--
it was a learning experience.
And you've gotta go through
the same experience
with Artemis.
Your first thing is
get 'em up there,
get 'em back,
don't hurt anybody.
And as you get more comfortable
as time goes on,
you'll get there,
pure exploration
or better exploration.
>> Thank you.
And so, uh, Gene Kranz,
as you shared,
you were the Apollo 17
launch flight director,
both Moon and Earth.
On Apollo 17,
it was the first night launch
of the Apollo program.
And you were on console.
For our guests,
why did we launch
the crew at night,
and did it create
any additional challenges
for the launch control
at the Cape
or mission control teams
here in Houston?
>> Vanessa, before I begin,
I'd like to, uh,
say a few words
to the Artemis team.
I've been involved in every--
beginning of every mission
from Mercury through, actually,
the Space Station program,
and into the Shuttle.
I was always--
our major concerns were always
the unmanned missions,
because a mission
without a man available
to exercise options
that maybe we had
not properly covered
during our pre-mission planning
was really key.
When I looked at
the Artemis profile,
a 22-day unmanned mission,
I almost wanted to know
what they were going to do,
what problems they would face.
So I got together with
a couple of the engineers
from Lockheed,
and I went over
the alternate mission options
they had in there.
And I talked with Mike Hawes
and one of his engineers
in there,
and I got then into
watching the videos program
from a standpoint
of the mission overview.
And I just wanted to say
you did one, I'll say,
hell of a job,
one hell of a job
pulling that thing off.
Because it was incredible.
[ applause ]
Now the simple question is easy.
Why did we launch at night?
[ laughter ]
Well, there's many things
that go into establishing
the launch window.
But one of the principal ones
is the sun elevation
at the time of landing.
And the sun elevation
to provide the best visibility
for the landing
through experience
and verified previous missions
is roughly between
7 and 20 degrees
behind the crew
at the time of landing.
This improves
their depth perception
and allows them
to basically exercise
whatever actions they need
to get to a proper landing site.
And I can say,
that was the easy question.
I still go back to Artemis
and want to say
you did a great job.
>> Thank you.
So, Jessi, can you
share your role
in the Artemis 1 mission?
And talk to us
about the parallels
between the two programs
and what it's like to be
an Artemis flight controller
in the past few weeks.
>> I had the absolute honor
to support the guidance,
navigation, and control console,
the GNC console,
in mission control
for Artemis 1.
GNC and our three backrooms
insured Orion knew where it was
throughout its entire journey,
when and where to maneuver,
and how to make it home safely.
So it was just
an incredible journey.
We were also responsible
for maneuvering
and calculating those maneuvers
to provide you
the incredible imagery
that you all saw
throughout the mission,
including that breathtaking
Earth being eclipsed
by the Moon.
It's truly something I know
I will never forget.
I think one of the parallels
between Apollo and Artemis
that sticks out to me the most
is that both programs
really embody the human spirit
to explore and to dream big.
And that is something that
I have been inspired by
throughout my entire career.
And they also show that
both programs can demonstrate
the ability to have
humans work together
and achieve an incredible goal
when you work together
through a common goal.
Let's see, the past few weeks
have been an incredible ride.
I got to live out a dream
that actually started here
at Space Center Houston
as a little girl.
So it's been an absolute honor,
and I could not be more proud
of the Artemis team
and what we've accomplished.
I can't wait to fly our crew
on Artemis 2.
>> For sure, for sure.
[ applause ]
Antja, as an Artemis engineer
with expertise in
water recovery systems,
how does the work you're doing
ensure the health and safety
of our Artemis crews?
>> So currently
I'm serving as the human
landing systems program--
it's basically
the portfolio manager
of a lot of the hardware
that's provided
specifically for crew use.
So anything from
the emergency hardware
to the food to the medical kits,
all of it is meant to ensure
the safety and health
and ensure their performance,
uh, of the, uh--
during the mission.
And so all of that ranges
from making sure that
they have the right
medical supplies
during their mission,
that they have the right food,
that it has the right
caloric content for that.
We also have what we call
the Lunar LOO, which is
the Lunar Lavatory On Orbit.
[ laughing ]
If you know
one thing about NASA,
we love our acronyms.
And so, um--
and it's exactly what you say.
It's about making sure
that they-- we have
waste management on orbit,
everything to protect the crew
and make sure that
they can do what we are--
take for granted on
a day-to-day basis,
and to ensure that the safety
is ensured during that.
>> Awesome. Thank you, Antja.
So joining us from-- yeah.
[ applause ]
I think the crews will tell you,
they appreciate knowing
that we're working on that LOO.
[ laughter ]
So Charlie's remote--
you're joining us remotely.
Thank you for joining us.
Can you hear me okay?
>> I see the stage
and a few front rows,
and you're loud and clear.
Hopefully I'm visible to you.
>> Yeah, you're visible
and loud and clear.
On Apollo 16 you were
the lunar module pilot
and one of very few people
who not only walked on the Moon,
but rode the lunar rover
on the surface.
Then you became
the backup lunar module pilot
for Apollo 17.
Talk to us about the crew
of Apollo 17
and your memories
of training with them
after having returned
on Apollo 16.
>> Well, uh, of course,
we were all close friends,
the astronauts, during Apollo.
So, uh, when
John and I returned,
they needed a backup crew
for, uh, 17.
And, uh, and now we realized
it was after that there was
no more crew assignments,
but we volunteered anyway,
because who knows
what might happen,
and we might be a good support
for the crew,
since we just got back
and we could give 'em insight
into the rover storage
in the lunar module procedures
and this thing--
this kind of stuff.
And so it worked out
really well.
We were a good support for them.
We worked hard,
uh, to learn the flight plan
and to help in the planning.
So being a backup crew
on a dead-end job, really,
uh, was pretty exciting.
We had good training
down at the Cape.
And so we got to know
each other's idiosyncrasies
and things like that.
So we were able to help out,
help the prime crew
and have inputs into some
of the flight plan,
as far as the lunar surface
activity goes.
So it was, uh--
we melded really well.
And, uh, was delighted
that I got to work on, um,
two backup crews,
a prime crew,
and, um-- and two times
in mission control.
So Apollo was
very exciting for me.
>> So I happen to know,
you've shared with me before
that you guys like to pull
pranks on each other.
[ laughter ]
Do you have any-any--
you remember, uh, sharing pranks
with Apollo 17?
>> Uh, yeah, one that, uh--
When Stu Roosa was
the backup command module pilot.
And John Young came in
one afternoon, panting,
as he'd been out running
the rover track,
which was out into the boonies.
And he came across
this big snake,
and it-it was huge, he said.
So he said,
"I threw rocks at him,
"and I think I wounded him
a little bit."
So Stu Roosa and I, uh,
got in our rental car,
and we drove out there
and found this big snake
and dispatched him
and said, you know what,
let's, uh, have a joke.
And so we took the snake
and we coiled it up
under Gene Cernan's chair
in the-in the crew office.
And he was in the simulator,
and we said he got
an important call,
so the secretary called him
and said you've got
an important call.
So he took a break,
and he sat down.
And the chairs there
were the roller chairs.
And the desk had
a little keyhole where
you put your [ indistinct ]
and you could roll it in.
So he was rolling in
towards that desk,
and he looks down
and sees this big snake,
which was-- had been dispatched
and beheaded, by the way.
And he, uh-- I mean,
mach 2 backwards.
[ laughter ]
And jumped out and said
a few choice curse words
and, uh--
and was white as a sheet.
And I said, uh--
I said, "John--"
'cause I thought, I said,
"we made a big mistake here."
[ laughter ]
And-- but everything--
then he realized
what had happened,
and we got, uh,
a few choice curse words
and a few-- everything else.
And everybody had a big laugh.
So we all settled down
and Gene took it really well
in the end.
So we had a few
little things like that,
but that was
the most interesting one
during our short
training period with 17.
[ laughter ]
>> You guys actually had
a really good time together.
>> Yeah, we did.
[ indistinct ]
You know, being on
the backup crew with
that experience we had as--
with our three days
on the Moon
was really helpful to them
in their training.
And we were able to give 'em
some ideas about
their, uh, traverses,
and what they should look for
and everything else like that.
And they did a fantastic job
as we built on the expertise
of the three previous missions
with the rover.
We got more and more confident
with the rover.
So I don't remember exactly
how far Apollo 15 went,
but we went out
about 4 miles or so,
maybe a little bit more.
Well, 17 did 7 miles.
And so with the confidence
in the rover,
we were able to expand
the exploration territory.
And it worked really,
really well.
>> Awesome, well,
thank you for sharing that.
[ applause ]
>> A pleasure.
>> So Gerry and Gene,
this one is for both of you.
What do you think Apollo did
that will help Artemis the most?
Kind of a hard one.
>> I've thought a lot about that
more in recent years
than I did early on.
I think the thing
that we probably provided
that they'll--
that will help them the most
is the fact that we did it.
When we started Apollo
it had never been done
and we thought we could do it.
We were a bunch of young people
that-that, uh,
had great leadership
and-and we pulled it off
and when I say we,
I'm not just talking
the Mission Control Center.
I'm talking a whole system.
we pulled it off.
Now that takes that element
out for Artemis.
It can be done.
We did it 50 years ago.
Artemis will have
much better tools to do it,
technology tools,
and I think it'll be
very successful
but I think the thing that
you can take off your plate,
not worry about,
is that it can be done
because we did that.
And, I'm-- Boy, Godspeed,
uh, have fun.
>> Awesome.
Gene your thoughts
on that question.
>> Two major themes
that existed
during the Apollo program.
There was a good relationship
between the Headquarters
team, uh, George Low
and basically
throughout this entire process,
it was a very personal
working relationship.
We didn't worry about
level one, level two,
level three, and all that
kind of stuff.
It emerged actually
from the prior programs,
where basically
we knew each other,
were friendly with each other
and as a result,
if we had problems,
we could call--
knew the right person
to call to and talk about
and bring issues
to the front.
I think the second thing was
we had a gentleman
by the name of Bill Tindall.
George Low had indicated
the concerns about integration
of all the aspects
of the hardware, software,
operations, procedures,
all these things
coming together
and he established
what was called
the mission techniques
or called
the flight techniques.
And these were, uh,
sometimes one and two days
meetings in there.
Where people would establish
how we were going to do things.
And finally, many people,
a lot of times, uh,
Tindall's work would get
in the way of my people
in the trench,
the control team.
And a fight would come up
on that topic.
But Bill would sit down
and about two days after
the meeting was over,
he'd write a memo
and saying,
I-I was at this meeting.
I listened well,
right on down the line,
and this is what I think
you said.
And then he would write
a two or three page memo
that would lay out
the direction
that we should take.
And I think the key thing is
I think the Artemis program
extremely complex, has to find
the Bill Tindall equivalent
to put these pieces together.
>> It should be noted,
Bill was here at JSC
but everybody in the agency
trusted him to to do it right.
And boy, his Tindallgram.
We called 'em Tindallgrams,
you know,
we were looking forward
to getting the next one.
>> Well, I think--
I think one also a good thing
is the minutes of
the flight techniques meeting
still exist.
It's about that tall.
About three inches.
They're published by the people
at Draper Labs.
And as you move
into this program,
you might take a look
about how this thing
called Apollo came together
because there's a lot of
good listens there.
>> Awesome. Thank you.
Yep, you're bringing back
fond memories
of flight techniques meetings
on shuttle.
So, awesome.
Well, so we do have
some questions coming in
from the audience
and there's a QR code.
>> Thank you.
Okay, great.
All right, so, um,
one of our first questions
is, uh-- and this is for
anybody on, uh, let's see--
What challenges
from 50 years ago
do we still see today
in getting to the Moon?
To all of our panelists.
>> The one thing I was
taking away from
from all three of them, from-
from Gene, Gerry and Charlie
is we're still learning
and these three folks
are still teaching us.
And I think, Gene,
when you said it's--
it's the integration
of all these parts, uh,
when I look across Artemis,
um, it's vastly more diverse
in its pieces now with
commercial industry involved,
with International partners
involved, um, the diversity
of this team from bottom up
is unbelievable as well as
the hardware, and so,
I think the thing
from 50 years ago
that is still going to be
a major challenge
and our agency is talking
about it every day
is how do we integrate
all of these parts
and who oversees that.
So, I thought that was
a great comment.
And-- and I do also--
I need to point out
because we have Charlie here,
it's the 50th anniversary
of Apollo 17.
It's also the 50th anniversary
of Apollo 16,
which flew just a few months
before 17.
These guys flew the Moon,
came back and they're like,
yeah, we'll be backup crew
for the next--
for the next crew and I'm like,
well, most people would be
taking a month off
and-and hanging out
with their families
but, you know, what you all did
in Apollo was just--
it was truly magnificent
and you motivated
an entire world to get into
science, technology,
engineering and math
and we all thank you for that.
>> Awesome.
[applause]
Yeah.
>> Can I pick up on one thing.
I think the one thing
that the hill to climb yet
for Artemis is the fact
that the Moon is still
240,000, give or take,
miles away and it's tough.
It's a hard business and, um,
somewhere along the way,
you're probably going to get
your nose bloodied--
hopefully not too bad.
Learn from it, move on,
but I really do think the--
I think it was Max Faget--
it may have been Bob Gilruth
that said something after--
and it was
in the Control Center
because I heard it.
He said...
I think it was Faget,
who was the chief designer
at the time
of almost everything
manned spacecraft.
He said, you know,
we made this look too easy.
The next bunch is gonna--
needs to be aware
that it's not easy.
It's very, very hard and, uh--
but that's why we did it
and that's why Kennedy said
that we're going to do it
because it's hard,
and just keep that in mind
it can bite you.
>> Indeed, and that was
our pleasure this year
to celebrate
the 60th anniversary
of the Moon speech
that John F. Kennedy gave
and which
kicked all of this off.
So what an inspiring time.
So, we're sitting here today
at Space Center Houston,
where future generations
are inspired daily.
When you're thinking about
your unique position
whether it be on Apollo
or Artemis-- so this is for
any of the panelists,
what would you share
with the young people today
about what their future
may look like?
>> I guess I'll take this one.
I'll take part of it, I guess.
Um, it's what they make of it,
right? Like, you know,
we're all building a foundation
every previous generation
is building the foundation
for the next.
And so, it's to continue that
with the baton.
I-I think, um, one thing
that I don't think is taught
as kind of early on as poss--
as I would like to see
is whenever someone says
what the challenge is
kind of going forward, um,
they think that we can say--
I don't say technical
for some reason,
the technical challenges
from an Artemis engineer
standpoint is not really
as intimidating
as some of the soft skills
in communication
that is needed.
And we hint on it here
with integration
but soft skills.
We all have
different personalities,
different opinions,
a lot of smart people.
Some voice their opinion
very loudly while some don't,
but somehow we have to
make sure we're all heard
and I think that
in order to move forward
and have that bright future
it's to understand each other
in order to have
that effective communication
and ultimately integration.
>> Okay.
[applause]
And the questions
are pouring in.
So I'm going to try
to get through
as many of them as I can.
So, for Mr. Griffin
and Mr. Kranz.
What technology used in Artemis
do you wish you had in Apollo?
[laughing]
>> Can I take it?
It's funny because in 1972,
even when we flew 17,
we had the best technology
available, and we thought
it was wonderful,
because it's all we had
and it was the peak
at that point.
Now looking back, you know,
with-- I would say,
if we had if we had had
more computing power onboard,
we wouldn't have had to load
and reload so many things
through the display keyboard
called the DSKY.
Uh, we would have had
an ability to maybe
just kind of run through it
with one set up
and the computer
and just like you do
on your cell phone
or PC or iPad,
select what you wanted
and just go on with it.
But it was--
everything was slower
and it had to be a little bit
slower because we had so much
to load and we didn't have
a good-- the other thing,
if you think about Apollo 13,
with all the reading
of checklists
that we had to do
and Fred can tell you
they ran out of paper
to write on.
We had no way to uplink
anything like that.
You had it shuttle,
you had a teleprinter
that if you needed to do
a checklist,
you just sent another one up
and we had to read all of that.
So there were things like that
that made it-- and Jim Lovell
just about came unglued
on Apollo 13
because we were so late
getting it up to him
getting the procedure
to how to power up
the Command Module
after we had taken it all down.
And I can tell you
they did it perfectly
but it sure would have been
a lot easier just to zap
that thing up there
and have 'em run through it.
That's the two things
I think of.
>> So, um, Reid,
I had a couple of ones for you.
People want to hear from you,
in general, and then
they want to know
what you have learned
from folks like
Gerry and Gene.
What about the Apollo missions
that inspired you.
>> I always have to start
by saying, "I wasn't alive."
So that's a good step
in the right direction.
Um, I think, uh,
first and foremost,
I have to look back
to when I was selected
as an astronaut in 2009,
which for some of you
seems like a long time ago,
for me it seems like yesterday
and the day we showed up
these folks were involved
in our training.
They were our mentors.
They were teaching us,
uh, everything that we needed
to think about.
And they've been there
by our sides every day since.
We just had a great talk
with Jack Schmitt
this past weekend
at a reunion, um,
and-and that's
the the biggest thing to me
is that they really embody
the life-long commitment
to human exploration
and they have never
let their guard down
and that is pretty awesome.
And, uh, I was listening
to Charlie earlier
when he talked about
how valuable it was
to come back from Apollo 16
and work alongside
with the Apollo 17 crew
and that is exactly
what we should be doing
in Artemis when that
two crew lands,
three is going to be
deep in training
for lunar exploration
and I bet there's a lot
they could learn about Orion
from the crew who had
just flown it--
and so they should be working
side by side and then three
should be doing the same
to share that legacy with four,
and then maybe in 30 years
down the road, I can be
sitting with the new class
that we just hired
and telling them about
lunar geology.
I think it sounds perfect.
>> Awesome.
Okay, so, uh, Charlie,
I'm gonna throw this out to you
um Gerry and Gene.
So how did working
on such a big initiative
change or develop you
as individual people?
>> If I go back into the, uh,
way we developed
in Mission Control
and the space program.
We started off very early...
I won't say ignorant--
what I'd say Hired Hands.
Basically, many times,
we'd arrive in Mission Control
without knowing each other
and we had not developed
what I'd say the relationships
to truly become a team.
As we continued to move
through the program however...
every controller,
every position was learning
by doing.
They were writing
the procedures,
developing the schematics,
that type stuff
and they would exchange this
with the other controllers.
We developed the ability
to work laterally and provide
integrated solutions
to the problems.
Now this was-- this turned
to be very important in Apollo
and even the shuttle program
because between
the mission rules,
and the learning by doing,
developing a schematic,
writing the procedures,
were able to help the program
through the change board process
and developing workarounds,
identified problems,
doing assessments for them.
So I think it's very important
early in this game
for the teams that are going
to be in Mission Control
writing these procedures
to basically provide
a check and balance upon
what the contractors are doing
through the mission rules,
self-study.
Basically, to acquire
the knowledge that is going
to give you the confidence
to speak out and say, hey,
I think we need to do
something different here.
>> I think all of us developed
as time went on,
a confidence,
and part of that was through
the great--
I mentioned it earlier--
The great leadership
that we had.
They trusted us.
Um, our leaders,
pushed decisions down
in those days, down to where
the expertise was.
And we would brief them,
and they would, when we had
a big issue, like some
of the stuff on 13,
we would brief them
and they would say, uh,
their major answer was--
okay, how can we help--
how can we help you
get it done.
And we trusted the people
below us.
We had to, the flight directors,
I'm talking-- below us.
Um, so, to me, it--
it became kind of a definition
of what a real team was,
from top to bottom.
Um, and it-it, uh--
it's really, really exposure
to what-- to take on
a difficult task
like we were doing,
and I hope you've got
that same set up in Artemis.
Um, it takes the whole team.
You know, we almost lost
in that era the personal pronoun
"I."
We used "we" all the time.
We're doing it tonight,
or this afternoon,
or wherever we are.
Uh, we, um, we seldom use
the personal pronoun "I,"
unless you said "I think."
But when we had a decision,
it was "we are gonna do it,"
or "we did it."
And it didn't make
any difference whether it was
done by the astronauts
or done by somebody
at mission control.
It was "we,"
it was the team that did it.
So I think that team concept
just permeated through us.
>> Absolutely.
And I will say that
that is alive and well.
>> Good.
>> Alive and well.
>> So, Jessie, people want
to know, what was
your favorite moment personally
with this Artemis mission.
>> There were so many
of them, it's hard to choose
just one.
But I think it was
the first time I was on console
for an orbit shift.
And we were maneuvering Orion
to take it its first
public affairs imagery shot
of the Earth.
And, I knew that there were
commands on the vehicle
that were from my team,
that were just about to execute,
and it was incredible
watching the time at which
the commands were supposed
to execute, there it goes.
And Orion starts maneuvering
to look at the Earth
and show the first shot
of the Earth from Orion.
So that was, I think,
my favorite moment.
There were, again, so many.
It's hard to choose,
but that was definitely
a highlight of my first shift.
>> Yeah, and if you haven't
seen the imagery from Orion,
please go to nasa.gov,
that's amazing imagery.
Same thing, I remember one day
I was in the control center,
and I just looked up,
and it was when we were doing
a close fly-by of the moon,
and I was like, "Oh, my gosh."
It's right there.
[laughing]
We can just touch it.
Um, so let's see.
Like I said, there's a lot
of great questions coming in.
Um, let's see.
For Charlie, check your mic
and see if you can respond.
>> Uh, I wasn't hearing you,
but I was hearing
everybody else.
Uh, I hope you're hearing me.
>> Okay.
So I can hear you now.
People want to know,
what did you like or not like
about the lunar rover.
Was there something about
the rover itself?
>> The rover was
a wonderful, uh, machine.
For what it was designed for,
I thought it behaved
and performed, uh, admirably.
We had a few little glitches.
Apollo 15 had a problem
with the seatbelt,
so we redesigned the seatbelts,
uh, so that we could get
in and out easy.
Uh, easier.
And, uh, it--
with a four-wheel drive,
and, uh, double steering,
uh, we were amazing
at the performance of the, uh--
of the rover.
We were climbing
20 degree slopes and, uh,
and, uh, it was, uh,
a very stable-- it was
a little squirrely
on the steering
because it was so sensitive.
Uh, and we tended to skid
back and forth a lot.
Uh, and, um, we got
so confident in the rover
that, uh, our flight plan
called us to navigate
a maneuver at about five--
uh, five kilometers an hour,
maybe a little bit faster,
but coming off the hills
in both 17 and 16,
we've done-- we've done
most of it-- the driver,
he did a fantastic job,
and I was the navigator.
And she came down the mountain.
We were all still high on the--
on the speedometer,
so both 16 and 17 had
that experience, so we both
claimed the moon speed record
on the--
[laughing]
both the flights.
Yeah, it was all still high,
so we were going at least
17 kilometers an hour.
[laughing]
It was bouncy.
To me, one of the wisest things
they did was to give
the control of the TV
to mission control.
So all we had to do
was turn it on and not worry
about pointing this thing
to keep track of--
we were really busy,
everybody's busy up there.
And, uh, getting in and out
of the rover was, uh...
not easy, but, uh, not hard--
not really hard, either.
And so we had so much storage
and everything like it.
I didn't have any major, uh,
trouble with-with the design
or the rover.
It was, uh, remarkably good
for what it was designed
to do, and that was carry
two people around the moon
and all the stuff that we had
to carry.
So Marshall and the contractors
did a great job designing that.
And, uh, we appreciated
the, uh, the effort they all
put into it.
It was fun.
>> Awesome, so like I said,
there's lots of questions,
but here's one from
a high schooler,
and the high schooler says,
"What can I do to take
my passion of learning
about space, and turn it
into a career?"
I'm gonna shoot that
to you, Reid.
So if I'm a high schooler--
He wants to know, um,
he or she wants to know
what they can do to take
my passion of learning
about space and turn it
into a career.
>> I'll start that one,
but then I'm gonna hand it off
to our two other Artemis
generation folks.
Um, this is an amazing time
where you can take that passion
anywhere you want.
Um, if I was-- if I was
in high school right now
and I had found that passion,
I'd be trying to get
an internship at NASA.
I'd be looking at where
I want to go to college.
I'd be working on some sort
of technical degree.
Um, and then, from there,
there's just so many
opportunities-- SpaceX,
Boeing, Lockheed,
Blue Origin. You name it.
Virgin Galactic.
There's just so many outlets
right now that you can go--
you can go apply yourself in.
And then, who knows, your life
might take a little bit
of a curve somewhere in there
and you may find a new passion
along that road that takes you
into some real specific
technical job that you change
the entire world, and that's--
I mean, that's-that's
a potential outcome
of all of that.
How about the NASA track?
What should they do
for the NASA track?
I think you covered a lot
of it, so if I put
my supervisor hat on,
and sitting on panels,
we need-- we need a lot
of talent, um, that is
looking at science,
technology, engineering
and math related career fields.
And so like you had mentioned,
one of our key ways that we hire
into NASA directly is through
the pathways internship program.
And so I strongly encourage
that-- it's an opportunity
for you to internship
with NASA.
You do several rotations,
from flight operations
to the engineering directorate,
to human factors.
There's so many opportunities
for you to experience it,
and to see whether or not
you like it, and if you do,
then it would be a great path
directly for hiring, but we
also have a very talented
contractor workforce as well.
And they have internships.
So we have Boeing,
we have Lockheed Martin,
we have KDR, we have Jacobs.
And you know, way--
a lot-- a lot more,
and so that's-- that's where
I would encourage that you
explore that, is to reach out
to the pathways, and look up
pathways intern--
we also have several internship
opportunities as well
that we also bring in.
So...
>> Okay.
>> I will just add that
you have a passion for a reason
and follow it.
Um, that's what I did
as a little girl
sitting here.
I was seven years old
and I saw the white
flight control room on a tour,
from Space Center Houston,
and that just sparked
everything for me.
So follow your passions,
follow your dreams,
and they can lead to
somewhere amazing.
I just flew a spaceship
around the moon from
that very flight control room
that I saw as a little girl.
So...
[applause]
Thank you.
>> Gene.
>> Jen, I want to talk to
the, uh, young people.
I'll give them a few words,
dream, aim high,
and never surrender.
And I think the key thing is,
no matter what you're doing
in life, school [indistinct],
you're gonna run into
bottlenecks,
you're gonna run into times
when you are just tempted
to just quit right on down
the line.
And I think the key thing
is to continue growing.
Uh, always set your goal high,
and then once you reach
that goal, move it a bit higher
and continue this process
of growing, and learning
throughout your entire life.
And I think that's the thing
that was really key
to our success
in mission control.
We never stopped accepting
the challenge to continue
growing and being better.
>> Yeah.
[applause]
So, I'm being told we're
gonna have to wrap,
and I know everyone
still had lots more questions.
And so, um, just thank you all
for the questions, but I want
to thank our panelists.
I want to thank
our Artemis generation
for being here and sharing
your experiences over
the past month, and everything
that's going forward,
but I want to acknowledge
and especially thank
our Apollo generation.
The panelists that are here.
I see people from
the Apollo generation
in our audience as well,
and I want to let you guys know
that we truly appreciate
everything, everything
that you did to set us
on the course for now,
returning to the moon,
and going forward.
So just thank you,
thank you, thank you.
And Charlie, thank you
for joining us remotely
and sharing
your wonderful stories with us.
[applause]
>> I just want to add,
I think we all should give
a round of applause to
Vanessa White for serving
as our moderator today
and doing such a great job.
[applause]
And also for her leadership.
As we conclude today,
I want to call your attention
to the flag that's on exhibit.
This is part of the collection
at Space Center Houston.
That flag actually traveled
on Apollo 17 to
the lunar surface.
And so it's one
of our prize artifacts,
so I encourage you to take
a picture with it
so you have a memento,
but you'll be able to see it
in our starship gallery
where we have America on Exhibit
along with the vest
that Gene Kranz wore
for that launch.
Thank you again for
joining us and have
a great rest of the day.
[applause]