>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US
TODAY.
WE ARE GATHERED HERE FOR A
SPECIAL LIVE RECORDING OF
HOUSTON WE HAVE A PODCAST FOR A
FEW REASONS.
ONE, IS IT IS MENTAL HEALTH
AWARENESS MONTH, SO WE'RE HERE
TO TALK ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH,
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T
NORMALLY TALK ABOUT, I THINK,
ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO
ASTRONAUTS, WE USUALLY TALK
ABOUT THE FLUID SHIFTS, THE BONE
AND MUSCLE LOSS THAT HAPPENS ON
THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION.
WE DON'T REALLY GET A CHANCE TO
TALK ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH.
THE SECOND REASON WE'RE GATHERED
HERE TODAY, IS TO HELP FULLY
TELL THIS STORY, WE CAN, YOU
KNOW, TALK ABOUT THE ASTRONAUT
STUFF AND THE STUFF GOING ON IN
SPACE ALL DAY, BUT REALLY, TO
HELP US RELATE IT TO STUFF HERE
ON THE GROUND, WHICH IS, AGAIN,
ONE OF MY FAVORITE SAYINGS, ON
THE GROUND, YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY
THAT IT'S ON THE PLANET EARTH,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU -- WE
CAN RELATE IT TO IS A TOURING
ROCK BAND SO WITH US TODAY IS
THE BAND SHINEDOWN.
CONNECTING WITH US, FROM LEFT TO
RIGHT, LET'S SEE, WE HAVE ZACH
MYERS, THERE WE GO, ERIC MASS
AND THEN BARRY ON THE RIGHT
THERE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US TODAY.
>> HOW ARE YOU GUYS DOING TODAY?
>> WE'RE FANTASTIC, I'M SO GLAD
YOU CAN TAKE THE TIME TO JOIN
US, ALL THE WAY FROM NORFOLK,
VIRGINIA, THE WAY SHINEDOWN IS
CONNECTING WITH US, A FEW
REASONS, ONE OF THEM IS THEY
HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT MENTAL
HEALTH, SOMETHING THAT'S VERY
IMPORTANT TO THEM, SO THEY HAVE
THOUGHT ABOUT IT VERY RECENTLY,
AND I'M EXCITED TO HEAR WHAT YOU
GUYS -- YOUR GUYS THOUGHTS ON
MENTAL HEALTH, ESPECIALLY THE
ISOLATION AND THE FACT THAT YOU
GUYS ARE A TOURING ROCK BAND AND
TO MY RIGHT IS THE WHOLE SPACE
ELEMENT, IMMEDIATELY TO MY
RIGHT, MARK, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING ME TODAY.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> MARK HAS SPENT 168 DAYS IN
SPACE, FROM SEPTEMBER 2017 TO I
BELIEVE FEBRUARY 2018.
YOU WORKED ON A NUMBER OF
EXPERIMENTS, DID A LOT OF SPACE
WALK, YOU WERE A VERY BUSY MAN
ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE
STATION, I'M EXCITED TO HEAR
YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON MENTAL
HEALTH DURING YOUR STAY IN SPACE
AND OF COURSE, OVER HERE, WE
HAVE DR. JIM -- JIM, YOU ARE A
SENIOR OPERATIONAL PSYCHOLOGIST
WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS
MEDICAL BRANCH AT GALVESTON IN
THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, NASA,
THREE DECADES OF EXPERIENCE.
YOU WERE IN THE ARMY AS WELL.
AND CONTRIBUTING AUTHOR TO THE
PAPER CALLED RISK OF ADVERSE
COGNITIVE OR BEHAVIORAL
CONDITIONS AND PSYCHIATRIC
DISORDERS, WHICH I WOULD
SUMMARIZE TO SAY HOW MENTAL
HEALTH AND BEHAVIORAL
PERFORMANCE CAN BE AFFECTED IN
SPACE.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> MENTAL HEALTH CAN BE
STRESSORS FROM ALL DIFFERENT
SOURCES, NOT JUST THE ISOLATION
OF BEING IN SPACE AND TOURING AS
A ROCK BAND ON THE ROAD, SO
WE'RE GOING TO EXPLORE THIS HERE
TODAY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US
ON FACEBOOK LIVE AND NASA TV.
SHINEDOWN, I'M GOING TO THROW IT
TO YOU GUYS FIRST, I WANTED TO
UNDERSTAND, SO TO DRAW THIS
COMPARISON, TO REALLY GET THIS
FULL STORY OF WHAT IT'S LIKE
REALLY, I MEAN, WE TALKED ABOUT
THE ISOLATION ON THE
INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION, BUT
WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR YOU GUYS AS A
TOURING ROCK BAND.
>> YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT
AN HONOR TO TALK TO YOU GUYS.
WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
DO THIS.
THANK YOU.
I'M A NASA FAN SINCE I WAS A
LITTLE KID, THIS IS REALLY COOL.
BUT YOU KNOW, FOR US, IT'S --
IT'S HOURS OF BOREDOM AND
MOMENTS OF EXCITEMENT, THAT'S
PROBABLY THE SAME THING
ASTRONAUTS GO THROUGH, I WOULD
IMAGINE, MAYBE.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF WHAT
YOU MAKE IT OUT HERE, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE IN THAT WE
HAVE A REALLY GOOD FAMILY UNIT
ON TOUR.
WE ALL STILL RIDE THE SAME BUS,
WE LOVE EACH OTHER, WE'RE
BROTHERS, YOU KNOW, I THINK
SOMETIMES SOME OF THE BANDS
THINK WE HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS
BECAUSE WE LIKE EACH OTHER SO
MUCH.
BUT YOU KNOW, FOR US, IT'S ABOUT
BEING A SUPPORT SYSTEM FOR EACH
OTHER.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY
HUGE FOR TOURING BAND, THERE'S A
REASON WHY SO MANY MUSICIANS
FALL INTO DRUGS, ALCOHOL ABUSE,
AND DEAL WITH DEPRESSION, IT IS
A LIFESTYLE THAT ON THE OUTSIDE,
SEEMS SUPER EXCITING, AND IT IS,
IN SOME ASPECTS, BUT THERE'S
NOTHING THAT CAN PREPARE YOU FOR
DOING -- I REMEMBER WHEN I
JOINED THE BAND JUST AFTER THE
BAND HAD GOTTEN THE TOURING THE
SECOND RECORD, SO I WAS LATE TO
THE GAME, I WASN'T AN ORIGINAL
MEMBER OF THE BAND AND I
REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, COMING IN TO
THIS AND JUST REALLY JUST
THINKING HOW EXCITING IT'S ALL
GOING TO BE.
AND THEN PRETTY QUICKLY, GETTING
A DOSE OF REALITY, WHICH IS, THE
IMMENSE AMOUNT OF IDLE TIME THAT
YOU END UP WITH OUT HERE AND HOW
YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND THAT.
IT'S PROBABLY -- I END UP, ME
PERSONALLY, I END UP MAKING WORK
FOR MYSELF A LOT NOW.
I MEAN, I WENT THROUGH THE
PERIOD OF ALCOHOL AND WE ALL
DID, EXCEPT ZACH, ZACH IS THE
ONLY ONE THAT HELD FAST THROUGH
EVERYTHING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, BECOMING MORE
SOBER AND REALLY HAVING TO FIND
A WAY TO DEAL WITH THE MENTAL
SIDE OF BEING ON THE ROAD ALL
THE TIME.
YOU KNOW, I FIND WORK FOR
MYSELF, I MAKE MYSELF BUSY.
WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT I KNOW
THAT THE ASTRONAUTS ON THE SPACE
STATION AND MARK, THEY --
THEY'RE CONSTANTLY LOOKING AFTER
EXPERIMENTS AND DOING THINGS AND
THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING -- A
TASK TO BE DONE.
SO YOU'RE USED TO SORT OF A
GREAT STRUCTURE IN YOUR HOUSE,
AND THEN WHEN YOU GET OUT HERE,
IT'S ANYTHING BUT THAT.
SO REALLY, IT'S FINDING A WAY TO
CREATE STRUCTURE, WHERE THERE IS
NONE.
AND LIKE I SAID, OUTSIDE OF
HAVING EACH OTHER, THAT'S
PROBABLY THE SECOND MOST
IMPORTANT THING I CAN THINK OF
US FOR PERSONALLY.
>> STRUCTURE, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE
THAT ELEMENT OF CONNECTION,
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE
SO CLOSE, HAVING THAT SORT OF
FAMILY ASPECT, IS SOMETHING
THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO
MAINTAIN THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE
TOUR.
IS IT TRUE FOR JUST THE BAND,
TOO, OR EVEN YOUR OWN FAMILIES?
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF
BOTH, DEFINITELY WITH THE BAND
BECAUSE WE SPEND MORE TIME WITH
EACH OTHER THAN OUR FAMILIES AT
HOME, THREE OUT OF FOUR OF US
ARE MARRIED AND THREE OUT OF THE
FOUR OF US HAVE KIDS, WE HAVE A
GREAT STRUCTURE AT HOME THAT WE
LONG FOR AND MISS.
LAST YEAR, WE WERE HOME 31 DAYS
OUT OF THE YEAR.
WE ARE GONE LONG STRETCHES AT A
TIME.
BUT HAVING SUPPORT SYSTEM OUT
HERE, AND THEN HAVING SUPPORT OF
WIVES AND THAT KIND OF THING,
AND WE'RE A LOT LUCKYIER IN
SYSTEM THAT WE'RE NOT WAY UP IN
SPACE, WE CAN GET OFF THE BUS --
BRING OUR FAMILIES OUT
OCCASIONALLY, WHEN THEY HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY.
SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE TIMES HELP
BUT LIKE ERIC SAID, WE HAVE A
SUPPORT GROUP, THE MONOTONY, THE
BACKSTAGE OF ANY VENUE LOOKS THE
SAME AS ANY OTHER VENUE, IT
TURNS INTO A GROUNDHOG TODAY,
TODAY WE'RE IN A HOTEL, TOMORROW
IS THE SHOW.
THE SAME THING, HERE'S THE SHOW
TIME, HERE'S YOUR MEET-AND-GREET
TIMES AND IT BECOMES REALLY
MUNDANE AND IF YOU DON'T FIND
SOMETHING TO DO, ALONG WITH
CREATING WORK FOR OURSELVES,
BIGGEST THING IS OUR HEALTH
ASPECT AND TAKING CARE OF
OURSELVES, WE MAKE AN EFFORT NOW
TO WORK OUT TOGETHER EVERY
SINGLE SHOW DAY, WE WORK ON THE
DAYS OFF, HAVING THAT EXERCISE
IS PROBABLY KEPT A LOT OF THOSE
OLDER DEMONS AT BAY.
>> I'M HEARING A LOT OF
PARALLELS WHEN IT COMES TO
SPACEFLIGHT.
HOW DOES THAT COMPARE FROM WHAT
YOU'RE HEARING ABOUT WHAT
SHINEDOWN IS GOING THROUGH AS A
TOURING ROCK BAND?
WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THE SPACE
STATION?
>> THERE'S A LOT PARALLELS AND
DIFFERENCES, TOO.
DEALING WITH BOREDOM, FOR ME ON
THE SPACE STATION, THAT SIX
MONTH ROUGHLY PERIOD, I ASSUME
WAS THE ONLY SIX MONTHS I WOULD
EVER BE IN SPACE.
AND IT FELT LIKE I COULDN'T
POSSIBLY -- LIKE I HAD ALL OF
THESE PERSONAL GOALS I WANTED TO
DO, PICTURES OF PLACES I WANT TO
TAKE FOR PEOPLE, PICTURES OF
THINGS THEY GAVE ME TO TAKE THAT
WERE GIFTS FOR ME LATER IN
SPACE.
AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, EVERY
SINGLE DAY WAS A LIST OF TASKS
THAT AT LEAST AT FIRST WERE ALL
NEW.
I MIGHT HAVE BEEN TRAINED ON
THEM, BUT TRAINED ON ONE THING
FOR AN HOUR, AND TWO YEARS
LATER, YOU HAVE TO DO IT, IT'S
KIND OF HARD TO REMEMBER EXACTLY
WHAT IT WAS YOU WERE SHOWN.
THINGS LOOK FAMILIAR.
BUT IT'S AN ENVIRONMENT, YOU
HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IN EXACT
DETAIL.
OR ELSE YOU BREAK SOMETHING THAT
SOME SCIENTIST SPENT THEIR WHOLE
LIFE GETTING TO THE SPACE
STATION.
LIKE WITH MAKING MUSIC, BUT FOR
ME, IT WAS THIS GRIND WHERE I
COULDN'T RELAX, I COULDN'T FIND
A TIME TO SLOW DOWN, I FELT LIKE
EVEN WHEN I HAD FREE TIME, HI TO
MAKE AS GOOD USE OF IT AS
POSSIBLE OR I WAS GOING TO
REGRET IT.
MAKING CONTACT WITH FAMILY WAS
HUGE.
THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH MY CREW,
CERTAINLY A VERY GOOD PARALLEL
WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.
WAS WITH FIVE OTHER PEOPLE, I
RECALL VERY, VERY GOOD CAMPERS
TO SPEND TIME WITH IT.
IT WAS NICE BEING OFF THE PLANET
WITH THEM.
WE TOOK GOOD CARE OF EACH OTHER.
AND EXERCISE, TOO, ANOTHER
IMPORTANT PARALLEL, THANKFULLY,
PART OF THAT BUSY SCHEDULE
INVOLVES TIME AND NASA SETS
ASIDE FOR US TO EXERCISE EVERY
DAY.
EVEN THOUGH, I FELT SORRY FOR
MYSELF, RUNNING ON A TREADMILL
THAT WAS MOUNTED ON A WALL,
RUNNING TOWARDS THE GROUND WITH
BUNGEE CORDS ON MY HIPS AND
SHOULDERS.
YEAH, THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT TIME
FOR ME TO KEEP SANE.
>> I CAN SEE A LOT OF THE
DIFFERENCES, ESPECIALLY WITH YOU
HAVING TO FIND FREE TIME, AND
THEN YOU GUYS HAVE A LOT OF FREE
TIME AND TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO
FILL IT.
BUT WHAT REALLY STRUCK ME IS
WHEN I HEARD ABOUT THE LENGTH OF
TIME.
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I
THINK CAN BE TAXING IN AND OF
ITSELF, WHEN YOU'RE TOURING FOR
SO LONG, THAT YOU DON'T HAVE --
I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE
TRYING TO FIND TIME TO FILL, BUT
YOU'RE STILL BUSY, YOU'RE STILL
ISOLATED, YOU'RE STILL WORKING,
YOU'RE STILL ON TOUR.
WHAT'S IT LIKE, THE LENGTH OF
TIME, HOW WAS THAT TAXING?
>> I MEAN, THE LENGTH OF IT, WE
TRY TO TAKE MORE BREAKS NOW, BUT
I MEAN, SOMETHING LIKE LAST
YEAR, WAS REALLY HARD.
BECAUSE LAST YEAR, LIKE YOU
SAID, WE STARTED MARCH OF LAST
YEAR, WITH REHEARSALS AND
LITERALLY GONE ALL YEAR AND
OTHER THAN 32 DAYS.
IT WASN'T LIKE 32 DAYS AT ONE
TIME HERE, 5 DAYS HERE, 6 DAYS
HERE.
THAT LENGTH OF TIME GETS LONG.
BUT HAVING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS,
US GETTING ALONG AND AT THIS
POINT WE ENJOY BEING TOGETHER.
SO IT MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER.
SO WE'RE DOWN HERE, WE CAN FACE
TIME, WE DO THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND IT'S NOT -- YOU DON'T HAVE
TO BE AT A CERTAIN TIME OF DAY
WHERE YOU GET A CONNECTION, I
CAN'T IMAGINE BEING UP THERE FOR
SIX MONTHS AT A TIME AND, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S ONLY CERTAIN TIMES
OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU
CAN CALL OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
WHEN YOU HAVE A CERTAIN TIME.
I CAN CALL MY WIFE AT ANY TIME.
THE PARALLELS ARE SIMILAR, BUT
VERY DIFFERENT ON DIFFERENT
PLANES, AS FAR AS THAT GOES,
IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE EASE OF
THINGS, LIKE THAT, BUT WHAT YOU
DESCRIBED IS LIKE, YOU KNOW,
BEING UP THERE AND HAVING A TASK
TO DO, THAT'S HIM.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S -- HE MAKES
TASKS.
>> THAT'S A VERY UNUSUAL --
INTERESTING PARALLEL, ABOUT NOT
FEELING LIKE YOU HAD ENOUGH
TIME, FEELING LIKE YOU ALWAYS
HAD TO BE ON THE GO WITH CERTAIN
THINGS.
I DO THAT TO MYSELF AND IT
STARTED AS A WAY FOR ME TO DEAL
WITH THE DEPRESSION, AND IT'S A
WAY -- I WON'T SAY A HINDRANCE,
BUT IT'S AN OCD THING FOR ME TO
WHERE I FEEL LIKE I HAVE A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, FINITE
AMOUNT OF TIME TO ACCOMPLISH
THINGS I WANT TO ACCOMPLISH, AND
IF I'M NOT DOING THOSE THINGS
ALL THE TIME, THEN I'M SOMEHOW
BEING SLACK OR LAX OR SOMETHING.
IT'S HARD TO RELAX SOMETIMES
WITH THOSE THINGS.
AND I WAS TALKING TO A FRIEND OF
MINE THE OTHER DAY WHO SAID SHE
HAD THE SAME THING, AND SHE HAD
BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH HYPER MANIA,
AND I'M SURE THE DOCTOR CAN FILL
ME IN ON THAT.
BUT IT SOUNDED VERY FAMILIAR
WITH WHAT SHE WAS SAYING, IT IS
REALLY -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT
COMES WITH BEING AWAY, YOU KNOW,
AWAY FROM HOME OR SOMETHING, BUT
ALWAYS FEELING LIKE THAT I NEED
TO BE MOVING FORWARD AND
ACCOMPLISHING THINGS.
YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN LETTING
THE -- BECAUSE WE HAVE A SAYING
OUT HERE, IT'S JUST A SAYING,
BUT IT'S -- YOU STOP AND YOU
DIE.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T PUT ON THE
BRAKES, WE CAN'T PUMP THE
BRAKES, WE HAVE TO KEEP MOVING
IN ORDER TO KEEP -- ME TO KEEP
THE DEPRESSION AT BAY AND THAT
SORT OF THING.
SO I DID IDENTIFY WITH WHAT YOU
SAID ABOUT FEELING LIKE YOU HAVE
TO BE GOING ALL THE TIME, AND
DOING YOUR EXPERIMENTS AND THAT
SORT OF THING.
AND STAYING ON TOP OF IT.
THE WORK I'M DOING MAYBE ISN'T
AS SCIENTIFICALLY IMPORTANT, BUT
DEFINITELY, I HAD THAT THING
WHERE I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO
MOVE, MOVE, MOVE.
AND MR. SMITH HAS JOINED US.
>> I'M SO SORRY.
I APOLOGIZE.
>> HE WAS NOT ON THE TREADMILL
ATTACHES TO BUNGEE CORDS,
RUNNING.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> I MOST CERTAINLY WASN'T.
I HAD AN ALTERCATION WITH A
POLAR BEAR.
[ LAUGHTER ]
IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING, I
APOLOGIZE FOR MY TARDINESS.
>> NO WORRIES AT ALL.
WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU.
ALL RIGHT.
SO ERIC, WHAT YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT HAS TO DEAL WITH SORT
OF, YOU KNOW, FEELING THE TIME,
KEEPING YOURSELF BUSY, MARK,
WHEN YOU WERE ON STATION, DID
YOU FEEL THAT THE BUSYNESS, THE
RAPID PACE OF EVERYTHING ON
STATION, DID KEEP YOU DISTRACTED
OR WAS IT MENTALLY TAXING TO
HAVE ALL OF THOSE THINGS?
>> IT DEPENDED A LOT ON HOW
SUCCESSFUL I FELT ABOUT KEEPING
UP WITH THE PLAN.
SO THE WAY IT WORKS ON THE SPACE
STATION, WE HAVE A SCHEDULE THAT
THE GROUND -- THINGS LIKE MAKING
SURE THAT THE ONE PLACE WHERE WE
CAN CONTINUALLY LIFTING WEIGHTS,
ONLY ONE CREW MEMBER IS
SCHEDULED FOR THAT AT A TIME,
FOR EXAMPLE.
THAT SCHEDULE SHOWS UP AS A
GRAPH WHERE EVERYBODY HAS GOT A
LINE ON IT AND THE CURRENT TIME
OF DAY IS A RED LINE.
AND THAT RED LINE JUST KEEPS
MARCHING ACROSS THE DAY AND
YOU'VE GOT CHUNKS THAT ARE
ACTIVITIES, AS YOU CAN CLICK ON
THE ACTIVITY, AND THE SPACE
STATION COMPUTERS, AND IT WILL
TELL YOU, HEY, THAT ACTIVITY
MEANS YOU DO THESE THINGS AND
IT'S GOT STEP BY STEP.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE CHRISTMAS
MORNING, PUTTING TOGETHER TOYS,
ALL DAY, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.
AND THEN THE GOOD NEWS IS, AT
FIRST, WELL, THE CHALLENGE IS AT
FIRST, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT,
LIKE, I DON'T EVEN -- WOW, I'M
NOT SURE WHAT THAT SENTENCE
MEAN, LIKE YOU'RE PUTTING
TOGETHER A TOY.
BUT AS TIME GOES ON, YOU GET
MORE AND MORE OF THOSE
ACTIVITIES THAT ARE SOMETHING
YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH.
AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THE WHOLE
PLAN, OH, I GOT THAT.
THIS IS ALL FAMILIAR.
>> YEAH.
>> BUT AT THE BEGINNING, IT'S
THE UNKNOWN PART.
AND WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT THIS
IS ONLY SCHEDULED FOR AN HOUR,
IT TOOK ME AN HOUR AND A HALF TO
GET DONE WITH IT, I'M WORKING ON
THE NEXT THING AND YOU KEEP
FALLING FARTHER BEHIND.
SO AT FIRST, WHEN THAT HAPPENS
MORE FREQUENTLY, IT'S
CHALLENGING.
AS TIME GOES ON, YOU START
GETTING AHEAD FURTHER AND
FURTHER AND YOU'RE ABLE TO -- IT
FEELS REALLY GOOD WHEN YOU'RE A
LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF THE TIME
LINE AND YOU CAN LOOK AT YOUR
OTHER CREW MATES AND SAY, HEY,
HOW ARE YOU DOING, CAN YOU USE
HELP ON THIS?
THAT'S THE BEST DAYS WHEN I'M
HELPING OTHER PEOPLE AND NOT
NEEDING HELP.
>> JIM, THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO
BRING YOU IN, YOU ARE A SENIOR
OPERATIONAL PSYCHOLOGIST AND
THAT MEANS YOU'RE INVOLVED IN
THE DAY-TO-DAY STUFF, YOU'RE
INVOLVED WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING
WITH THE CREW ON BOARD THE
STATION NOW.
SO WHAT'S YOUR JOB?
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP THE
CREW?
>> A TERM THAT'S PROBABLY
UNFAMILIAR TO A LOT OF PEOPLE,
OPERATIONAL PSYCHOLOGIST.
ACTUALLY, IT'S A GENERAL FRAME
WORK.
WHAT WE DO IS WORK WITH
PERSONNEL WHO ARE CONDUCTING
REAL-WORLD, HIGH-RISK MISSIONS,
LIKE ASTRONAUTS, BACKGROUND
COMES FROM THE DOD, A NUMBER OF
OPERATIONAL PSYCHOLOGISTS WHO
SUPPORT SOLDIERS, ALSO CONDUCT
THESE HARSH AND VERY DANGEROUS
MISSIONS.
AND OUR ROLE IS TO, IN A SENSE,
KEEP HIGH-FUNCTIONING PEOPLE
FUNCTIONING AND HEALTHY.
SO WE REALLY TRY TO OPTIMIZE AND
ENHANCE THEIR HEALTH AND WELL
BEING, THEIR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH
AND WELL BEING.
IN OUR BUSINESS, IT'S EASIER TO
PREVENT A PROBLEM THAN TO
INTERVENE.
AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, IT WOULD BE
VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO
INTERVENE WITH A BEHAVIORAL
HEALTH PROBLEM ON THE STATION.
THERE'S CERTAIN LIMITATIONS IN
WHAT WE CAN DO.
SO WE HAVE A WHOLE SPECTRUM OF
THINGS THAT WE DO TO HELP
SUPPORT ASTRONAUTS, ONCE THEY'RE
DEPLOYED ON STATION.
BUT OUR WORK REALLY BEGINS WELL
BEFORE THEN IN THE LIFE CYCLE OF
AN ASTRONAUT.
SO WE'LL GET INVOLVED IN THE
EVALUATIONS OF THEIR
SUITABILITY, APPLICANT'S
SUITABILITY TO BECOME AN
ASTRONAUT, BECAUSE ONE OF THE
BEST WAYS FOR US TO PREVENT
PROBLEM IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
HAVE ONLY FOLKS WHO ARE
PSYCHOLOGICALLY SUITABLE TO DO
THE WORK OF AN ASTRONAUT, OR A
SPECIAL OPERATION SOLDIER OR ONE
OF THE OTHER KINDS OF SPECIAL
JOBS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT
INVOLVE HIGH RISK AND HIGH
STRESS.
SO OUR WORK BEGINS VERY EARLY ON
IN TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT
PERSON FOR THE JOB.
ONCE THAT PART IS DONE, WE GET
INVOLVED IN THE TRAINING OF
ASTRONAUTS FROM A BEHAVIORAL
HEALTH PERSPECTIVE.
AND HERE AT NASA, WE TRAIN IN
ASPECTS OF WHAT WE CALL
EXPEDITIONARY SKILLS, WHICH
REALLY TAKE THE MANY
COMPETENCIES LIKE PEOPLE LIKE
MARK HAVE AND TRY TO DEVELOP
THOSE IN AREAS THAT ARE
IMPORTANT TO LIVING AND WORKING
IN SPACE FOR LONG PERIODS OF
TIME.
AND SO WE WILL WORK ON -- SOME
OF THE VERY THINGS THAT YOU GUYS
WERE TALKING ABOUT.
AND WE TRAIN AND EDUCATE IN
THOSE AREAS LIKE FOR EXAMPLE,
THE IMPORTANCE OF SELF-CARE,
TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF WHEN YOU
ARE ON THE ROAD.
THE SAME AS AN ASTRONAUT.
PROVIDING THAT SELF-CARE IS VERY
IMPORTANT IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN
THE RESERVES THAT YOU NEED TO
PERFORM EFFECTIVELY ON THE JOB.
AS MARK HAS SAID, AND AS YOU
PROBABLY HAVE FIGURED OUT, THE
SPACE ENVIRONMENT IS A VERY
DEPLETING ENVIRONMENT.
IT TAKES A LOT OF YOUR PHYSICAL
AND MENTAL ENERGY AND SO YOU
HAVE TO WORK REALLY HARD TO DO
THAT.
SO WE HAVE ANOTHER PART OF OUR
JOB, WHERE WE WILL BE INVOLVED
WITH ASTRONAUTS ONCE THEY ARE
DEPLOYED ON STATION, AND THROUGH
A SERIES OF COUNTER MEASURES
THAT ARE DEPLOYED ON STATION AS
WELL AS TIME THAT WE GET TO TALK
WITH THEM.
AND SOMETHING WE CALL A PRIVATE
PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFERENCE.
AND THAT IS PART OF A SPECTRUM
OF SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE TO
TRY TO OPTIMIZE THE BEHAVIORAL
HEALTH OF OUR FOLKS.
>> ONE OF THE MANY THINGS TO
SORT OF KEEP THEM GOING.
ONE OF THE THINGS I PICKED OUT
WAS, YOU KNOW, IN THE TERMS OF
ASTRONAUT SELECTION, YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT THESE GUYS, MARK
INCLUDED, WERE SELECTED FOR A
PURPOSE, THEY ARE READY FOR
SPACEFLIGHT, THEY ARE NOT ONLY
PHYSICALLY AND THEY HAVE THE
KNOWLEDGE, BUT THEY'RE MENTALLY
READY FOR THAT.
SHINEDOWN, WHEN IT COMES TO YOU
GUYS, GOING ON THE ROAD, YOU
KNOW, I THINK CREATING MUSIC
MIGHT BE ONE THING, BUT THEN
TOURING AND PERFORMING MUSIC IS
ANOTHER THING YOU'VE GOT TO BE
MENTALLY READY FOR.
HOW DO THOSE THINGS COMPARE FOR
YOU?
>> WELL, WE DON'T
CROSS-POLLINATE THOSE THINGS, WE
DON'T WRITE MUCH ON THE ROAD, WE
TEND TO TAKE TIME OFF TO WRITE.
TOURING IS SO GRUELLING AND
REGIMENTED.
IT PARALLELS WITH WHAT YOU GUYS
WERE SAYING.
WE HAVE A SAYING THAT IS EITHER
YOU'RE BUILT FOR THIS OR YOU'RE
NOT, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT WE MEAN
IS YOU'RE BUILT TO DO THIS IN A
HEALTHY WAY OR YOU'RE NOT.
WE SEE PLENTY OF PEOPLE FALL
APART AND CAN'T HANDLE IT.
I THINK OUR PSYCHOLOGICAL
PROGRAM, A LOT OF TRIAL AND
ERROR.
>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY
HELPFUL.
>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY
HELPFUL, ACTUALLY.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE OR WOULD HAVE.
>> IT WOULD HAVE.
>> I'M SURE.
BUT YOU KNOW, WE --
>> WE TRY TO NEVER GO TO BED
ANGRY, BASICALLY.
I MEAN, IT IS --
>> SURE.
>> IT IS DEFINITELY LIKE A
MARRIAGE.
WE'VE ALSO BEEN DOING IT FOR TWO
DECADES, WE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH IN
THE BEGINNING, IN THE VERY EARLY
20s OF OUR CAREER, WE KIND OF
GOT SOME OF THE CHAOS OUT OF THE
WAY.
AND AS WE GOT OLDER AND AS THE
CRAFT OF SONG WRITING AND THEN
BUILDING THE PERFORMANCE STARTED
TO GROW, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GO
THE EXTRA MILE ON THAT, WE
STARTED JUST KEEPING EACH OTHER
IN CHECK EVEN MORE, WE'RE VERY
LUCKY BECAUSE WE HAVE THE FOUR
OF US ON THE ROAD.
THE OTHER THING, TOO, IS WE'RE
IN A POSITION IN OUR CAREER
WHERE IF WE WANTED TO RIDE IN
SEPARATE BUSES, WE COULD.
IF WE WANTED SEPARATE DRESSING
ROOMS, WE COULD.
WE CHOOSE NOT TO DO THAT BECAUSE
WE ACTUALLY GENUINELY RESPECT
AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
AND WE'RE ALSO ON THE ROAD 280
DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR, IF NOT
MORE.
SO FOR US, WE HAVE TO KIND OF
KEEP EACH OTHER IN CHECK.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH, I'M HEARING A LOT OF
ELEMENTS WHEN IT COMES TO WHEN
YOU GUYS STARTED, YOU JUST SORT
OF HAD TO HIT THE GROUND
RUNNING, YOU KNOW, YOU STARTED
MUSIC AND YOU WERE TOURING AND
GOING.
AND I THINK THERE'S SORT OF THE
PARALLEL, MARK, WHEN IT COMES TO
TRAINING, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT
NECESSARILY -- IT'S NOT LIKE YOU
GET SELECTED AND YOU GET
LAUNCHED AT THE STATION, YOU ARE
PREPARING VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
TRIP TO SPACE.
AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT
ONLY FROM THE ASPECT OF ACTUALLY
GETTING PREPARED FOR THE SYSTEMS
PART, FOR THE SCIENCE PART, FOR
ALL OF THOSE PARTS, BUT FOR THE
RELATIONSHIP PART.
BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE TRAINING
WITH ARE THE PEOPLE YOU WOULD
ULTIMATELY FLIGHT WITH.
>> THERE ARE PARTS OF THAT AND
PARTS OF IT THAT ARE NOT.
>> OKAY.
>> WHEN WE TRAIN AS -- FOR
EXAMPLE, I WAS INITIALLY GOING
TO BE ONE CREW MEMBER FROM THE
UNITED STATES ON A RUSSIAN
SPACECRAFT WITH TWO RUSSIANS.
AND SO MY CREW MATES LIVED IN
RUSSIA, THEY WOULD TRAIN, I
WOULD SHOW UP FOR A LIMITED
AMOUNT OF TIME AND TRAIN WITH
THEM.
BUT WHEN I WAS BACK IN THE
UNITED STATES, I WAS ON THE
SEPARATE SCHEDULE FROM OTHER
ASTRONAUTS.
SO SOMETIMES I WOULD CROSS PATHS
WITH SOMEBODY, BUT IT WASN'T
LIKE I HAD A SHUTTLE CREW OF SIX
PEOPLE IN ADDITION TO ME THAT
WAS GOING TO TRAIN EVERYTHING
TOGETHER, AT LEAST, ALWAYS DO
SPACE WALK TRAINING WOULD BE
FOUR PEOPLE ALL WORKING
TOGETHER, MAYBE A COUPLE OF
PEOPLE COACHING THE PEOPLE
TRAINING.
WHILE THE PEOPLE ACTUAL I --
ACTUALLY GOING TO DO THE SPACE
WALK WERE UNDERWATER.
IT'S ISOLATED IN THAT REGARD.
I WAS WORKING IN WASHINGTON,
D.C. AND SOMEONE SAID IT MUST BE
MORE EXCITING AND I WAS SO
ENGAGED WITH GETTING THINGS
DONE, MAKING DECISIONS AND A LOT
OF PEOPLE CONTACT, LIKE I WAS IN
THE MILITARY, THAT I SAID, YOU
KNOW, ACTUALLY WORKING IN THE
ASTRONAUT OFFICE IS LIKE BEING
IN A STUDENT, WHERE I'M WORKING
ALL DAY IN THE LIBRARY, AND
EVERY NOW AND THEN I GO TO A
CLUB MEETING, TIME -- TYPE OF
THING.
YOUR INDIVIDUAL SKILLS ARE GOOD.
CERTAINLY, I CAN ALSO RELATE TO
I WAS IN RUSSIA TRAINING, WE HAD
HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE
FROM THE UNITED STATES, WE WOULD
LIVE TOGETHER, WE HAD OPTIONS TO
LIVE IN ONE OF SIX COTTAGES AND
THOSE COULD HAVE THREE PEOPLE
LIVING IN EACH ONE OF THEM.
AND IT WAS ALWAYS BETTER FOR ME
WHEN I WAS LIVING WITH SOMEBODY
ELSE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'D
WAKE UP, HAVE THAT CONVERSATION
WHILE GETTING A CUP OF COFFEE,
TRYING TO STUDY SOMETHING, THE
OTHER PERSON HAD THE CLASS
RECENTLY OR HAD THE CLASS WITH
ME.
IT WAS A MORE EFFECTIVE STUDENT
AND PERSON WHEN I HAD THE
CASUAL, EASY CONTACT, THAT'S
JUST ASSOCIATED WITH HAVING
PEOPLE IN THE PROXIMITY.
>> WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT
RELATIONSHIPS, I DO WANT TO
SHIFT GEARS, GO BACK TO MENTAL
HEALTH.
AND KIND OF READ SOME STUFF
ABOUT MENTAL ILLS.
OVERALL, ONE IN SIX AMERICANS
HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS AND 4.2%
OF ADULTS IDENTIFY AS HAVING A
SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS THAT
SIGNIFICANTLY IMPAIRS
FUNCTIONING, A LOT OF THESE ARE
18-25-YEAR-OLDS, TALKING ABOUT
THE YOUNGER GENERATION.
WHEN IT COMES TO ANXIETY
DISORDER, 3.1%, BUT THESE ARE
2016 NUMBERS, THESE NUMBERS ARE
KEEPING TO INCREASE, IT IS A
TOPIC THAT IS VERY MUCH PRESENT
BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE
NORMALLY TALK ABOUT.
SO, GUYS, YOU GUYS HAVE WRITTEN
ABOUT MUSIC.
WRITTEN IN YOUR MUSIC ABOUT
MENTAL HEALTH, SHARED IT WITH
THE WORLD.
TELL ME ABOUT WHAT THE -- WHAT
YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, ABOUT THE
FACT THAT WE'RE NOT SHARING
MENTAL HEALTH AND HOW IT IS
IMPORTANT TO BRING THIS UP AND
TO TALK ABOUT IT?
>> I THINK IT'S -- IT'S SAD THAT
YOU CAN -- YOU BREAK YOUR LEG,
GO TO THE DOCTOR, GET FIXED.
AND YOU WALK AROUND ON CRUTCHES
AND THE WHOLE WORLD CAN SEE
YOU'RE ON CRUTCHES AND EVERYBODY
IS SYMPATHETIC TO YOUR PLIGHT
AND YOU KNOW, OFFERING YOU, YOU
KNOW, GOOD WILL AND HOPE YOU GET
WELL SOON AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
AND IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT
WITH HAVING DEPRESSION, AT LEAST
FOR ME, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME
I'VE EVER TALKED ABOUT IT,
REALLY, WHEN WE DID THE MOST
CURRENT RECORD, BECAUSE BRENT,
YOU KNOW, BRENT AND I WERE
WRITING A SONG TOGETHER AND HE
BROUGHT THE SONG IN AND IT WAS
ABOUT, HE HAD WRITTEN LYRICS
ABOUT ME AND WHAT I GO THROUGH.
IT WAS VERY PERSONAL.
SO, YOU KNOW, I HAD ALWAYS
CHOSEN TO KEEP THOSE THINGS
BETWEEN MY WIFE, MYSELF AND MY
FRIENDS AND WAS REALLY IT.
BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, I WAS
EMBARRASSED ABOUT IT TO AN
EXTENT.
YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOW THE CHINK
IN THE ARMOR, THE SCARS AND THE
IMPERFECTIONS IN YOUR MIND.
AND BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A PERSONAL
THING.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE
STIGMA COMES FROM, IS NOBODY
WANTS TO SHOW ANY MENTAL
WEAKNESS, WE'RE NOT A SOCIETY
THAT SMILES ON THAT THING.
IT'S NOT A WEAKNESS, BUT YOU
DON'T WANT TO SHOW ANY SORT OF
IMPERFECTIONS, LET'S SAY.
AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, I REALLY
THINK IT'S TIME TO START DOING
THESE THINGS AS WHAT THEY ARE.
JUST ANOTHER, YOU KNOW,
PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL MAKEUP OF
YOUR BRAIN THAT CAUSES YOU TO
HAVE CERTAIN FEELINGS AND BE A
CERTAIN WAY.
THERE ARE TOOLS AND HELP
AVAILABLE TO FIX IT, JUST LIKE
PUTTING A CAST ON YOUR LEG.
YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT THE
-- I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA HAS A
LOT TO DO WITH THE WAY THE
NUMBERS ARE GOING FOR KIDS,
HAVING ANXIETY, YOUNG PEOPLE
HAVING ANXIETY.
BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS SO HYPER
--
>> MICROSCOPED.
>> EVERYTHING SEEMS SO -- YOU
KNOW, WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, I
WASN'T AWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING
ON A THOUSAND MILES AWAY FROM
ME, AND NOW, IT'S THERE IN AN
INSTENT.
AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK
THERE ARE ANYMORE PROBLEMS IN
THE WORLD THAN THERE WERE 40
YEARS AGO, I THINK THAT THEY'RE
MORE PRESENT, THEY'RE MORE
AVAILABLE.
SO YOU FEEL LIKE THE SKY IS
FALLING.
AND IT CAN -- BELIEVE ME, I'VE
HAD TIMES WHEN I JUST -- I SAW A
LOT OF SOCIAL MEDIA, AND I HAVE
TO, I FIND MYSELF STARTING TO
FALL INTO THE MOODS BECAUSE OF
THINGS THAT I SEE OR WHAT PEOPLE
ARE TALKING TO ME, OR THE WAY
PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT FRIENDS
OF MINE OR WHATEVER, AND ALSO,
PEOPLE ARE MORE APT TO BE BRAVER
ONLINE THAN THEY'RE GOING TO BE
IN PERSONAL, EVERY DAY
ENCOUNTERS.
I THINK A LOT OF THAT FEEDS INTO
THE NUMBERS WE'RE SEEING.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE ANXIETY,
ESPECIALLY THAT PEOPLE FEEL, I
CAN'T IMAGINE BEING A YOUNG
PERSON AND COMING UP NOW AND
EVERYBODY -- I SAY EVERYBODY --
PAINTING A BROAD STROKE, BUT
PEOPLE SEEM TO BE SO JUDGEMENTAL
ONLINE, YOU'RE GOING TO GO OUT
INTO PUBLIC AND PUT YOURSELF OUT
THERE, AND IT COULD MAKE YOU
VERY MUCH WANT TO JUST STAY
INSIDE.
>> I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER
BIGGER PICTURE, TOO, THAT HE'S
TOUCHING ON, WHICH IS THE FACT
THAT THERE IS -- THERE'S A
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING
DEPRESSED AND THERE MAY BE A
CHEMICAL IMBALANCE, OR THERE
MIGHT BE A PHYSICAL ISSUE GOING
ON.
AND THEN HAVING A CASE OF THE
MONDAYS.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE IN
THAT.
I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE FOR ME,
SOMETHING ABOUT, TWO-AND-A-HALF
YEARS AGO, I HAD TO DO
PERSONALLY FOR ME, IN REGARDS TO
SOCIAL MEDIA, LIKE ERIC WAS
SAYING, ZACH HAS A GOOD QUOTE
THAT HE KEEPS US IN CHECK WITH,
LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE.
HE'S ALWAYS SAID, IT'S NOT ABOUT
THE PAINTER, IT'S ABOUT THE
PAINTING.
SO IF YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT
EVERYTHING FROM ALL ANGLES,
SOMETIMES, THAT'S DIFFICULT TO
DO.
BUT SOMETHING I STARTED DOING
ABOUT I GUESS ABOUT A YEAR AND A
HALF AGO, I HAVE TWO ALARMS WHEN
I WAKE UP.
WHETHER I'M ON THE ROAD OR I'M
TOURING OR I'M JUST OUT IN MY
LIFE.
THE FIRST ALARM WAKES ME UP.
AND THEN THE SECOND ALARM IS AN
HOUR AFTER THAT.
THE FIRST HOUR I'M UP IN THE
MORNING, THAT'S MINE, I DON'T
LOOK AT MY PHONE, I DON'T REALLY
TALK TO ANYBODY.
AND THEY KNOW WHEN I KIND OF
COME IN, THEY KNOW THAT I'M NOT
BEING RUDE, HE JUST WOKE UP,
HE'S GOT AN HOUR.
THAT'S MY MEDITATION.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
THAT'S A WAY FOR ME CENTER
MYSELF, BECAUSE GUESS WHAT?
THE PHONE ISN'T GOING TO GO
AWAY.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE GONE
TOMORROW, AND NEITHER IS
ANYONE'S COMMENTSES OR OPINIONS.
YOU HAVE TO FIND FOR THE YOUNGER
GENERATION, TOO, IT'S SUCH A
DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, IT'S
INSTANT GRATIFICATION.
IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF
ADJUSTING AND YOU'RE ALWAYS
GOING TO BE ADJUSTING, BECAUSE
YOU'VE GOT TO DO IT FOR YOU.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE WHAT I MEAN BY IT IS, YOU
HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE, YOU
KNOW, IN THE WAY THAT'S GOING TO
MAKE YOUR HAPPY FIRST BEFORE
YOU'LL EVER MAKE ANYBODY ELSE
HAPPY.
I THINK SOMETIMES PEOPLE FORGET
THAT.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE
GOT TO KEEP IN CHECK.
YOU KNOW?
AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, WITH ERIC
AND YOU KNOW, ALL THAT WE WERE
DOING, REALLY, PUTTING OURSELVES
OUT THERE IN THE LAST YEAR AND A
HALF, WITH WHAT WE DO, I LEARNED
MORE ABOUT HIM.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
I LEARNED SO MANY WONDERFUL,
BEAUTIFUL ARTISTIC, YOU KNOW,
INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT HIM.
I LEARNED A TON MORE ABOUT
BARRY.
I LEARN A TON MORE ABOUT ZACH
AND WE LEARNED A TON MORE ABOUT
EACH OTHER, BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN,
WE TALK TO ONE ANOTHER, HE
PINPOINT SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH.
WHETHER YOU'RE YOUNGER, MIDDLE
AGE OR YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT
OLDER.
PEOPLE DON'T NEED TO FEEL
ASHAMED BECAUSE THEY FEEL A
LITTLE OFF, YOU KNOW, WHAT I
MEAN?
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU.
AND YOU SHOULDN'T FEEL
EMBARRASSED.
IF YOU NEED TO TALK TO SOMEBODY,
GO TALK TO THEM.
AND HERE'S THE OTHER THING, IF
YOU NOTICE OUT IN YOUR OWN LIFE,
EVEN IF IT'S A TOTAL STRANGER
AND YOU CAN TELL THERE'S
SOMETHING OFF, MAYBE, GO UP TO
THAT PERSON AND ASK THEM HOW
THEY'RE DOING.
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO LOSE IN
THE BIG PICTURE, DON'T LOSE YOUR
HUMANITY.
DON'T LOSE YOUR EMPATHY FOR EACH
OTHER.
BUILD EACH OTHER UP.
THERE'S NO REASON TO BRING EACH
OTHER DOWN.
EMPATHY IS A BIG WORD THAT COMES
UP A LOT WHEN WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THESE THINGS.
IT'S SUCH A HUGE THING.
IS, YOU KNOW, NEVER FORGET, YOU
KNOW, THAT QUOTE, BE KIND TO
EVERYONE BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW
WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH OR
WHAT BATTLE THEY MIGHT BE
FIGHTING.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT SEEMS TO KIND OF GET LOST
IN THIS AGE OF LIKE HE SAID,
HYPER TECHNOLOGY, HYPER SPEED,
AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
IS JUST BEING EMPATHYIC TO OTHER
PEOPLE AND WHAT THEY CAN BE
GOING THROUGH.
YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH A -- IT
MEANS A LOT, I'LL TELL YOU THAT.
WHEN THESE GUYS COME TO ME, THEY
CAN TELL WHEN I'M DOWN, IT
REALLY DOES HELP, HEY, ARE YOU
OKAY?
I MIGHT BE OKAY, I MIGHT BE
HAVING A TIME, AND I KNOW I'M
OKAY.
I'LL TELL THEM I'M OKAY.
BUT IF I'M NOT OKAY, I'LL TELL
THEM I'M NOT OKAY.
WE HAVE THAT KINDED OF
RELATIONSHIP AND THAT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT TO US.
YOU KNOW, AS A BAND, IS BEING
ABLE TO BE OPEN LIKE THAT.
I'LL HAVE SOMETIMES WHEN I GO AT
THE END OF THE LAST EUROPEAN RUN
THAT WE DID, IT WAS GETTING --
COLD, IT WAS WINTER TIME IN
RUSSIA, THERE YOU GO, YOU CAN --
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M
TALKING ABOUT, SO IT'S NOT THE
BEST LANDSCAPE FOR DEPRESSION,
EITHER.
BUT I WAS SPENDING A LOT OF TIME
BY MYSELF.
AND WITHOUT A LOT TO DO, BECAUSE
WE WERE OVER IN EUROPE, AND I
DIDN'T HAVE ALL OF THE CREATURE
COMFORTS WITH ME, I WAS GOING
PRETTY DARK, I WAS HAVING A
TOUGH TIME.
ALMOST A SELF-IMPOSED ISOLATION
IN SOME WAYS.
I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE SEEING PEOPLE
AND THAT SORT OF THING.
AND THEY REALLY KEPT ME IN
CHECK.
THEY COULD SEE SOMETHING WAS
WRONG.
YOU KNOW?
AND IT'S JUST SO IMPORTANT TO
HAVE -- TO HAVE PEOPLE AROUND
LIKE THAT.
AND ONCE AGAIN, I THINK THAT
KIND OF LEADS US BACK TO SOME OF
THE PROBLEMS WITH SPACE TRAVEL
AND BEING ISOLATED FOR, YOU
KNOW, VAST AMOUNTS OF TIME,
WHERE YOU CAN BE ISOLATED, LIKE
GOING TO MARS OR WHATEVER,
THAT'S RIGHT NOW, WITH THE
CURRENT PROPULSION, THAT'S SIX
MONTHS OR SOMETHING, JUST TO GET
THERE, YOU KNOW, IN A SPACESHIP
WITH YOU AND A FEW OTHER PEOPLE.
THAT WOULD BE -- THAT COULD BE
REALLY MIND NUMBING, IF YOU'RE
NOT MENTALLY PREPARED, EVEN IF
YOU ARE.
LIKE I SAID, I'M BUILT TO DO
THIS JOB, I'M BUILT TO BE OUT
HERE ON TOUR AND IT STILL
BECOMES, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING
THAT THE INTERNAL BATTLE
SOMETIMES IS -- CAN BE PRETTY
DAUNTING.
>> I THINK A MAJOR THEME, WHAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ERIC, AND
BRENT, IS THE FACT THAT YOU'RE
IDENTIFYING THESE THINGS, YOU'RE
RECOGNIZING THESE PROBLEMS, AND
YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THEM AND I
THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S
VERY IMPORTANT TO MAKE HUMAN
SPACEFLIGHT SUCCESSFUL IS TO
RECOGNIZE, IDENTIFY, WHAT COULD
BE THE PROBLEM?
HOW COULD THESE THINGS BE
AFFECTED?
AND JIM, THAT PAPER YOU WROTE
WAS IDENTIFYING THESE ARE THE
RISKS THAT COULD -- OF
BEHAVIORAL PERFORMANCE WAS THE
MAIN THING, MENTAL HEALTH AND
BEHAVIORAL PERFORMANCE FOR HUMAN
SPACEFLIGHT, WHAT ARE THOSE
RISKS?
WHAT HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED AS
RISKS TO THAT COULD AFFECT HUMAN
SPACEFLIGHT?
WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LEAPT ME
SAY, THANK YOU -- LET ME SAY
THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE COURAGE
TO SHARE YOUR STORIES.
AND TO SHARE WHAT YOU ARE DOING
BECAUSE THAT GOES A LONG WAY TO
HELPING OTHERS TO COME FORWARD
AND GETTING THE HELP THEY NEED.
WITH FOLKS LIKE YOU, AND OTHER
CELEBRITIES AND ATHLETES,
ACTUALLY DOING THAT, ROLE MODELS
FOR KIDS, FOR EXAMPLE, REALLY
STRUGGLING.
IT'S REALLY GREAT THAT YOU'RE
WILLING TO PUT YOURSELVES
THROUGHOUT AND DO THAT.
SO THAT OTHERS CAN SEE YOU AND
KNOW THAT YOU CAN BE SUCCESSFUL,
YOU CAN BE POPULAR AND GET HELP
AND REALLY THANK YOU FOR THAT.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE KIND OF
PSYCHOLOGICAL ASPECTS OF
SPACEFLIGHT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT HOW HARSH THE
ENVIRONMENT CAN BE, PHYSICALLY,
AND TYPICALLY, AS WE THINK ABOUT
EVEN THE CURRENT ISS, AND FUTURE
MISSIONS, THE ENVIRONMENT IS ONE
OF, YOU KNOW, MICROGRAVITY, HIGH
CARBON DIOXIDE LEVELS, SOCIAL
ISOLATION AND ISOLATION, SAY,
FROM LOVED ONES, AND FRIENDS,
FAMILY, AND EVEN HAPPENINGS HERE
ON THE PLANET.
OUR CULTURE, WHAT'S GOING ON IN
THE WORLD.
CONFINEMENT.
THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN'T STEP
OUTSIDE AND CATCH A BREATH OF
AIR IF YOU REALLY JUST WANT TO
CLEAR YOUR HEAD.
IT'S HARD TO GETAWAY IN A SMALL
ENVIRONMENT LIKE THAT.
AND EVEN THOUGH THE ISS IS A
WELL-DEVELOPED HABITAT FOR ITS
PLACE IN ITS DEVELOPMENT, IT'S
NOT LIKE BEING HERE, AND THERE
ARE JUST CERTAIN THINGS THAT
AREN'T AVAILABLE TO OUR
ASTRONAUTS FOR COPING.
AND SO THE OTHER PIECE OF THAT,
I THINK, IS, YOU KNOW, THE
STRESS OF PERFORMANCE THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT THAT MARK WAS
TALKING ABOUT.
HAVING TO BE, YOU KNOW, HAVING
TO WORK WITH THE PRECISION AND
WITH THE INTENSITY AND TAKE FOR
EXAMPLE, THE THREATS THAT
ARE, YOU KNOW, TO PERFORMANCE,
SAY, IN A SPACE WALK, MARK HAS
DONE, YOU KNOW, FOUR SPACE
WALKS.
THE INTENSITY OF CONCENTRATION
IN THAT REALLY DANGEROUS
ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU REALLY
HAVE THIS FEELING LIKE YOU HAVE
TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU'RE
DOING ALWAYS AND THERE'S NOT
MUCH -- THERE'S ALMOST NO ROOM
FOR ERROR.
AND SO ALL OF THOSE ARE KINDS OF
PSYCHOLOGICAL STRESSORS AND THE
ONES THAT WE GET MOST CONCERNED
ABOUT THAT BECAUSE OUR
ASTRONAUTS ARE TECHNICALLY
HIGHLY SKILLED AND VERY-WELL
TRAINED, ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS
THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE
ENVIRONMENT ITSELF, AND THE
CONDITIONS PSYCHOLOGICALLY.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS
IMPRESSIVE TO HEAR YOU GUYS TALK
ABOUT WAS SORT OF HOW A CREW
GETS ALONG, THE COHESION THAT
YOU FEEL, THE ATTENTION YOU HAVE
TO OTHERS MORALE AND TAKING CARE
OF ONE ANOTHER.
THAT'S VERY MUCH WHAT WE ARE
HOPING OUR CREWS WILL DEVELOP
ON, OR TO HAVE THAT KIND OF
CONNECTEDNESS TO ONE ANOTHER, TO
WATCH EACH OTHER, TO TAKE CARE
OF ONE ANOTHER, AND TO DEVELOP
THAT SORT OF BOND AND THAT'S --
THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT FEATURE
OF BEING ABLE TO COPE AND ADAPT
IN SPACE.
BUT IT'S A BIT OF A DOUBLE-EDGED
SWORD, BECAUSE MARK IS THERE
WITH FOUR OR FIVE OF HIS VERY
BEST FRIENDS AND THAT'S IT.
THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE CALL
SOCIAL MONOTONY.
SO YOU KNOW, CAN'T IMAGINE
HAVING THAT SORT OF LIKE YOU
DESCRIBED ON YOUR TOUR BUS, YOU
ARE THERE DAY AND NIGHT,
TOGETHER, AND WHILE YOU KNOW
EACH OTHER VERY WELL, SOMETIMES
YOU JUST WANT TO BREAK.
RIGHT?
AND YOU WANT TO KIND OF TO HAVE
THAT ALONE TIME OR MAYBE TO TALK
TO OTHER PEOPLE.
AND SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS ON
STATION THAT HELP WITH THAT, FOR
EXAMPLE, PRIVATE CREW QUARTERS,
THE ABILITY TO KIND OF GETAWAY,
GET INTO YOUR PHONE BOOTH SIZE,
I GUESS, CREW QUARTERS.
I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE KNOW WHAT
A PHONE BOOTH IS ANYMORE, BUT
SMALL.
YEAH.
AND BUT TO GETAWAY AND HAVE SOME
QUIET TIME, TO RECHARGE, TO, YOU
KNOW, JUST BE A LITTLE BIT BY
YOURSELF. THAT'S IMPORTANT TO
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF WHEN
YOU'RE IN THAT KIND OF
ENVIRONMENT.
DESPITE THE ISOLATION THAT YOU
WE TALK ABOUT IN A VEHICLE
THAT'S ORBITING THE EARTH OR ON
ITS WAY TO THE MOON OR MARS, YOU
NEED PRIVATE TIME, EVEN THOUGH
YOU ARE, QUOTE, ISOLATED.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW
THESE STRESSORS PLAY OUT.
NOW, WE HAVE THINGS THAT WE
HAVE, OUR ASTRONAUTS HAVE
AVAILABLE TO THEM, TO COPE WITH
THESE.
AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT ISOLATION
AND CONFINEMENT, FOR US, IT'S
SORT OF -- THINK ABOUT THE
OPPOSITE, HOW DO YOU NORMALIZE
THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENT?
SO THAT IT FEELS A LITTLE BIT
MORE LIKE HOME?
AND SO WE'RE FORTUNATE TO HAVE A
BUNCH OF COUNTER MEASURES
AVAILABLE TO OUR ASTRONAUTS TO
BE ABLE TO COUNTER ACT SOME OF
THOSE STRESSORS.
LIKE, THE OPPORTUNITY TO CALL
HOME THAT YOU GUYS MENTIONED,
YOU KNOW?
YES, I'VE NOT THE SAME AS TAKING
YOUR CELL PHONE AND, YOU KNOW,
CALLING ANY TIME, BUT IT'S
PRETTY GOOD, AS LONG AS WE HAVE
THE COMMUNICATIONS AVAILABLE.
WE ALSO ARE ABLE TO CONNECT OUR
ASTRONAUTS WITH THEIR FAMILIES,
IT'S ONLY ONCE A WEEK, BUT THEY
GET A VIDEO CALL WITH THEIR
FAMILIES, AND IT'S AN
OPPORTUNITY TO, YOU KNOW, BE IN
THE FAMILY, BE WITH THE KIDS, BE
WITH THE SPOUSE.
AND TO, YOU KNOW, SEE WHAT'S
GOING ON AT HOME.
YOU KNOW, IT'S A WAY TO MAINTAIN
THAT CONNECTION.
WE, YOU KNOW, PIPE UP CURRENT
EVENTS, MOVIES, MUSIC, THINGS
THAT ASTRONAUTS CAN USE TO STAY
CONNECTED HERE WITH THE EVENTS
DOWN ON THE EARTH.
SO THEY DON'T GET THAT SENSE OF
ISOLATION AND CONFINEMENT.
>> YEAH, IT'S LIKE THAT FREE
TIME IS NOT JUST, YOU KNOW,
HERE'S SOME TIME, IT'S ACTUALLY
IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT SORT OF
TIME FOR THAT MENTAL RELIEF,
WHEN YOU'RE SO BUSY ON THE SPACE
STATION.
MARK, WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER FROM
YOUR EXPEDITION ABOUT THE TEAM
DYNAMICS AND THE FREE TIME AND
ALONE TIME THAT YOU NEEDED
DURING YOUR STAY?
>> SO ONE OF THE TEAM DYNAMICS
THAT MAKES ME SMILE WAS -- SO I
ENDED UP LAUNCHING WITH JOE AND
THE COMMANDER FOR THE
SPACECRAFT, AND I LOVE BOTH JOE
AND SASHA A TON.
BUT BECAUSE I SPENT MORE TIME
WITH JOE, JOE AND I WORKED OUT
-- I KNOW I CAN BE REALLY GOOFY,
OR OVERLY SERIOUS.
AND I TOLD HIM, HEY, IF I'M EVER
BEING TOO GOOFY, START TO BEING
A PROFESSIONAL OR TOO GRUMPY,
LOOK AT ME AND SAY MID RANGE,
BUT WHEN HE SAID MID RANGE TO
ME, I'D BE LIKE REALLY?
REALLY?
SO I NEEDED THAT FEEDBACK
MECHANISM AND THAT CRACKS ME UP,
BECAUSE HE WOULD DEFINITELY BE
THE GUY THAT WOULD DO THAT.
AND THE OTHER THING WAS A SENSE,
WE HAD A LOT OF FUN GIVING EACH
OTHER A HARD TIME ABOUT STUFF.
AND I KNEW IF I DID A MINOR
THING THAT WAS IRRITATING,
INSTEAD OF GOING TO BED ANGRY
ABOUT IT, HE WOULD MAKE A JOKE
ABOUT IT AND IT WOULD OPEN IT
UP, IT WOULD BE -- GET IT OUT
THERE.
I WOULD KNOW THAT THAT'S AN
ISSUE, I WOULDN'T DO IT ANYMORE.
I PROBABLY GOT SOME FUNNY
STORIES I SHOULDN'T SHARE HERE,
ABOUT EXACTLY THE DETAILS OF
THAT.
[ LAUGHTER ]
BUT, YEAH, THAT WAS REALLY
HELPFUL FOR ME.
SOMEBODY WHO WILL GIVE ME
FEEDBACK, THAT I KNEW WAS
FEEDBACK FROM A GOOD PLACE,
WHERE I KNEW THEY'RE ON MY SIDE.
AND THE REASON THEY WERE TELLING
ME THESE THINGS, IT MIGHT NOT BE
COMFORTABLE FOR ME TO HEAR, WAS
IN MY BEST INTEREST TO HEAR.
>> SO WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF
ALONE TIME OR FREE TIME FOR YOU?
WHAT DID YOU -- DID YOU NEED
THAT?
OR WAS IT -- YOU GET ENOUGH
SPACE WHERE IT WASN'T REALLY A
REQUIREMENT?
>> I DEFINITELY NEEDED IT.
>> OKAY.
>> WE HAD A RULE WHERE -- SO ON
A WEEKEND, WE HAVE A LOT OF TIME
OFF, BASICALLY, THREE HOURS OF
HOUSE CLEANING ON ANY GIVEN
WEEKEND AND THEN IDEALLY, JUST
YOUR TIME.
AND IF SOMEBODY -- IMAGINE THE
FOUR BEDROOMS, THE FOUR CREW
QUARTERS, THE LITTLE CLOSETS,
BUT ONE PERSON ON THE CEILING,
ONE PERSON ON EACH WALL, ONE
PERSON ON THE FLOOR, LIKE PHONE
BOOTHS, THE DIRECTION DOESN'T
MATTER.
BUT THEY'RE ALL IN CLOSE
PROXIMITY TO ONE ANOTHER. AND
IF YOU'RE AN ENERGETIC PERSON IN
THE MORNING, AND YOU WANT TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION WHERE YOU'RE
NEXT DOOR, IF SOMEBODY HAD THE
DOOR SHUT, WE KNEW THAT THAT
MEANT THEY NEEDED QUIET TIME, SO
WE SHOULD TRY TO STAY QUIET
OUTSIDE.
THAT'S A CULTURE THING WE HAD ON
THE SPACE STATION.
BUT THERE WAS TIMES WHEN I, ON A
SATURDAY MORNING, I MIGHT BE
FEELING WORN OUT, AND I WOULD
JUST BE THERE, HAD A LAPTOP IN
THERE, START WATCHING A MOVIE,
AND THAT WAS A NICE WAY TO JUST
DECOMPRESS.
>> JUST TIME BY YOURSELF.
BUT YOU HAD THE WEEKENDS.
GUYS, I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE
WEEKENDS WHEN YOU'RE TOURING?
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> WE GENERALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW,
TWO SHOWS ON, ONE DAY OFF, TWO
SHOWS, ONE DAY OFF.
WE GOT TWO DAYS OFF, WHICH NEVER
HAPPENS.
WHICH WE REALLY ENJOYED.
.
>> WE CAN GO GET A HAMBURGER.
>> YEAH.
[ LAUGHTER ]
WE CAN'T -- WE'RE NOT UP THERE.
>> YEAH.
ACTUALLY, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR
BOTH MARK AND DR. JIM THERE.
BOTH CHIME IN ON THIS.
SO FOR ME, ONE OF THE ISSUES
THAT I HAVE BEING ON TOUR IS MY
HOBBIES.
SO MY HOBBIES THAT I LOVE TO DO,
THE THINGS I LOVE TO DO AREN'T
CON DEUCEIVE TO BEING ON --
CONDUCIVE TO BEING ON TOUR AND
I'VE HAD TO KIND OF FIND
CREATIVE WAYS TO OCCUPY MY TIME.
IS IT SOMETHING WHERE MARK, DID
YOU HAVE TO -- DID YOU HAVE ANY
HOBBIES THAT YOU CAN TAKE WITH
YOU UP THERE OR JIM, DO YOU GUYS
GIVE THE ASTRONAUTS -- SOMETHING
THAT GOES INTO THE PSYCHOLOGICAL
TRAINING, CULTIVATING NEW
HOBBIESES THAT THEY CAN GET INTO
IN A SPACE ENVIRONMENT?
HONESTLY, THOSE THINGS, I THINK,
BRENT LIKES TO QUOTE DWAYNE
JOHNSON, THE ROCK A LOT, FIND
YOUR ANCHOR, FIND THAT THING IN
YOUR LIFE THAT YOU CAN ANCHOR
YOURSELF TO.
THAT'S A HARD THING FOR ME TO DO
IS FINDING YOUR ANCHOR ON TOUR.
ONCE AGAIN, DR. JIM, FIND
SOMETHING TO DO IN A SPACE
STATION ENVIRONMENT, OR MARK,
YOU HAVE SOMETHING OTHER THAN
MAYBE WATCHING MOVIES THAT YOU
COULD DO?
>> ONE THING I BROUGHT FORWARD
WITH ME TO THE SPACE STATION,
READING, I LIKE READING, AND IT
TURNED OUT THAT IF I WAS
SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME ON A
SCREEN JUST BEFORE GOING TO BED,
I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FALL
ASLEEP WELL.
SO I IMAGINED TO CALL CARGO
TRANSFER BAGS FULL OF BOOKS THAT
OTHER PEOPLE LEFT BEHIND,
SOMEONE HAD SENT UP ON A CARE
PACKAGE, I STARTED READING A
REAL BOOK BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP.
THAT HELPED ME OUT A TON.
BUT A HOBBY THAT WAS GREAT ON
THE SPACE STATION TO LEARN ABOUT
WAS PHOTOGRAPHY, BECAUSE WE HAD
A LOT OF REALLY, REALLY GOOD
CAMERAS, AND I MEAN, WITH LENSES
THAT WERE SO BIG, I PROBABLY
COULDN'T LIFT THEM ON THE
GROUND.
BUT THEY OF COURSE THEY JUST
FLOAT IN SPACE.
AND A LOT OF GOOD ADVICE ON HOW
TO USE THE CAMERAS, INCREDIBLY
GOOD SUBJECT MATTER TO TAKE
PICTURES OF.
SO THAT WAS A NEW HOBBY THAT I
PICKED UP IN SPACE.
AND A HOBBY THAT I MISSED, I
LOVE WATER SPORTS, I'M A VERY
FLEDGLING SURFER.
I LIKE WIND SURFING AND I
COULDN'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT
IN SPACE, AND I MISS THE FEEL OF
THE WATER AND THE WIND AND SAND.
SO.
>> IT DID REMIND ME OF ONE THING
THAT IS PART OF OUR COUNTER
MEASURES, AND THAT IS SOMETHING
THAT WE CALLED A CREW CARE
PACKAGE, AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT
LIKE EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE
-- EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE.
LIKE WHEN PARENTS MIGHT SEND
CARE PACKAGES TO THEIR CHILDREN
AT CAMP OR COLLEGE.
MARK GIVES YOU A SENSE OF THESE
BAGS, THEY'RE NOT VERY BIG, AND
SO THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU CAN PUT
IN THEM, BUT TO THE POINT OF
SUPPORTING HOBBIES, AS YOU CAN
IMAGINE, IT'S QUITE LIMITED
BECAUSE OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
YOU KNOW, AND THE CONSTRAINTS ON
THINGS THAT YOU CAN FLY IN
SPACE.
BECAUSE OF THE DANGER IT MIGHT
PRESENT TO OUR ASTRONAUTS.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE
HAVE SENT UP IN THESE CREW CARE
PACKAGES AND YOU GUYS WILL
APPRECIATE THIS, ARE MUSICAL
INSTRUMENTS, THERE ARE
INSTRUMENTS ON BOARD THE
STATION, AND YOU KNOW,
ASTRONAUTS NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE
ME WITH HOW TALENTED THEY ARE.
THEY ARE FOLKS WHO CAN DO
MULTIPLE DIFFERENT THINGS,
REALLY WELL.
AND I'M NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.
[ LAUGHTER ]
SO I ALWAYS AM IMPRESSED BY HOW
TALENTED THEY ARE, AND WE'VE HAD
SOME REALLY TALENTED MUSICIANS
ON STATION.
AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE
HAD FRENCH ASTRONAUT PLAY THE
SAXOPHONE ON STATION, WE HAD
GUITARS ON STATION.
AND SO FOLKS WHO HAVE MUSIC AS A
HOBBY AND PLAY MUSIC AS A HOBBY,
THERE'S ACTUALLY A NASA
ASTRONAUT BAND, I BELIEVE, MARK,
THAT --
>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S STILL
ACTIVE.
BUT CERTAINLY HAD A COUPLE.
>> THERE ARE INSTRUMENTS ON THE
SPACE STATION, BELIEVE IT OR
NOT.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> SO, JIM, WHEN YOU'RE -- WHEN
YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THESE
MENTAL HEALTH WAYS TO RELAX,
FOCUSSING ON THIS, ESPECIALLY
WITH THE SPACE STATION, WHICH
HAS BEEN IN ORBIT, MORE THAN 20
YEARS AND CONTINUOUSLY HABITED
FOR COMING UP 19 YEARS STRAIGHT.
THINGS I THINK ARE GOING TO
CHANGE WHEN WE GO FORWARD TO THE
MOON, TALKING ABOUT GOING TO THE
MOON, 2024, BOOTS ON THE MOON.
WHAT CAN WE TAKE FROM THE SPACE
STATION TO THE MOON AND WHAT'S
DIFFERENT?
>> WELL, FORTUNATELY, WE'VE
LEARNED A LOT ABOUT WHAT KEEPS
FOLKS HEALTHY IN SPACE.
AND WE BASICALLY USE A COUPLE OF
PARAMETERS THAT WE SORT OF
FIGURE THESE THINGS INTO WHEN WE
DECIDE HOW TO PROVIDE THOSE KIND
OF COUNTER MEASURES.
THE FIRST IS HABITABLE VOLUME,
THE LARGER THE SPACE, OBVIOUSLY
THE BETTER.
AND THE OTHER IS THE
ENVIRONMENT, HOW MATURE THAT
ENVIRONMENT IS TO WHAT IT CAN
PROVIDE.
SO AS YOU POINT OUT, THE STATION
IS FAIRLY LARGE, HABITABLE
VOLUME AND A LOT OF -- IN ITS
MATURITY, HAS A LOT OF QUOTE,
CREATURE COMFORTS AND I SAY THAT
IN QUOTE, IT'S NOT A TRULY
COMFORTABLE PLACE.
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE UP THE
CREATURE COMFORTS FOR SURE.
THE UPCOMING LUNAR MISSIONS AND
FUTURE MARS MISSIONS, BECAUSE
THE VEHICLES WILL BE SMALLER.
AND THEY WILL BE MORE OF A
STEER, SO WE WON'T BE ABLE TO
HAVE MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS ON
BOARD, AS SOME OF THE ROBUSTNESS
OF THE EXERCISE EQUIPMENT AND
ALL OF THAT STUFF THAT WE RELY
ON NOW.
FORTUNATELY, MUCH OF THE STUFF
THAT WE RELY ON ARE EFFECTIVE IN
THE SHORT-TERM FOR US.
BECAUSE WE RELY ON
COMMUNICATIONS, BANDWIDTH, AND
THE ABILITY TO LOAD DATA FILES
AND SO THE ABILITY TO KEEP MUSIC
GOING UP TO THE STATION FOR
THEIR ENJOYMENT, VIDEOS AND
MOVIES, AND TO HAVE REALTIME
COMMUNICATIONS BACK HOME.
SO THAT MARK CAN MAKE A PHONE
CALL TO HIS FAMILY.
TO SEE HIS FAMILY ON A VIDEO
SCREEN AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE A
CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
AND SO FORTUNATELY, THOSE WILL
BE AVAILABLE TO US IN THE
UPCOMING MISSIONS TO THE MOON,
BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE REALTIME
COMMUNICATION AND HOPEFULLY, THE
ENGINEERS WILL GIVE US THE
BANDWIDTH THAT WE ASK FOR TO DO
THAT.
THINGS WILL CHANGE DRAMATICALLY
AS WE THINK ABOUT GOING TO MARS.
WE WILL LOSE REALTIME
COMMUNICATION AT SOME POINT.
AND THERE'LL BE A COMMUNICATION
DELAY.
SO WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO
RETHINK HOW WE PROVIDE SOME OF
THESE THINGS FOR THE FUTURE.
AND HOW WE MANAGE THOSE
EXPECTATIONS.
YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS MENTIONED
EARLIER THE ABILITY TO TUNE OUT
FROM SOCIAL MEDIA BECAUSE OF THE
OVERLOAD OF JUST HAVING
IMMEDIATE COMMUNICATION ALL THE
TIME.
BUT WE'RE RAISING FUTURE
GENERATIONS TO BE KIND OF
COMMUNICATE THAT WAY, YOU KNOW,
TO SEND IT A BRIEF TEXT MESSAGE
AND COMMUNICATE IN THAT KIND OF
WAY.
INSTEAD OF SAY, PICKING UP THE
PHONE AND HAVING A CONVERSATION
FACE-TO-FACE.
I WORRY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
FUTURE GENERATIONS THAT ARE USED
TO COMMUNICATING IN INSTANT TIME
AND THAT NOT BEING AVAILABLE.
YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING THE ABILITY
TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE A SKYPE
SESSION BECAUSE OF COM DELAY, OR
SEND AN E-MAIL OR TEXT MESSAGE.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT THE WAYS TO KEEP PEOPLE
CONNECTED TO MANAGE THE
EXPECTATIONS AROUND
COMMUNICATION AND TO TRY TO
MAXIMIZE THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE
HAVE AVAILABLE TO SUPPORT FOLKS
IN SPACE.
>> YEAH.
THE MOON GIVES YOU THOSE
CONSTRAINTS OF STUFF YOU CAN
BRING, BUT AT LEAST YOU HAVE A
LITTLE BIT MORE COMMUNICATION
THAT GETS A WHOLE LOT HARDER
WHEN YOU GO FURTHER TO MARS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> I DID WANT TO GET TO SOME
SOCIAL MEDIA QUESTIONS, WE'RE
NEARING THE END HERE, WE'VE GOT
ONE DIRECTED TO YOU GUYS,
SHINEDOWN, FROM GAIL.
SHE'S ASKING, I'D BE INTERESTED
IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE ABOUT HOW
DEPRESSION AND OTHER MENTAL
HEALTH ISSUES CAN HAVE AN IMPACT
ON TOURING MUSICIANS WHILE AT
THE SAME TIME, MUSIC CAN BE
THERAPEUTIC FOR OTHERS
STRUGGLING WITH ISSUES.
THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION.
DO YOU FIND THAT MUSIC CAN OFFER
YOU SOLACE IN TRYING TIMES?
I GUESS YOU CAN KIND OF BROADEN
THAT TO PLAYING MUSIC AND
LISTENING TO MUSIC ESPECIALLY
WHILE YOU'RE ON TOUR?
>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK ONE
COMMENT, WE RUN INTO A LOT IN
OUR MEET-AND-GREETS ON A DAILY
BASIS WITH OUR FRIENDS IS THANK
YOU SO MUCH, YOU HAVE NO IDEA
WHAT YOUR BAND HAS DONE FOR US,
WHAT YOU'VE HELPED US THROUGH.
AND I LIKE TO TURN TO THEM AND
SAY, I ACTUALLY DO KNOW.
OR THEY'LL SOMETHING TO THE
EFFECT, I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW
WHAT YOUR BAND MEANS TO ME.
YES, WE ABSOLUTELY DO KNOW.
WE'RE ALL FANS OF MUSIC.
AND WE'RE ALL FANS OF THE OTHER
BANDS AND OTHER ARTISTS AND WE
ABSOLUTELY FIND SOLACE IN MUSIC,
IT'S THERAPY.
IT'S -- I THINK IT'S THE BEST
KIND OF THERAPY.
YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE RIGHT SONG
AND DISCOVER THINGS ABOUT
YOURSELF THAT YOU WERE -- MAYBE
YOU DIDN'T REALIZE, YOU NEVER
KNEW ABOUT.
OR MAYBE YOU'RE TRYING TO FLUSH
OUT A PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE HAVING
IN YOUR HEAD ABOUT YOURSELF OR
SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE AND A
SONG CAN JUST CLICK ON A
LIGHTBULB LIKE THAT AND IT'S ONE
OF THE MANY BLESSINGS OF OUR ART
FORM IS THAT YOU KNOW, MUSIC IS
SO OBJECTIVE AND NOT SUBJECTIVE,
YOU CAN FIND WHATEVER YOU WANT
TO FIND IN IT.
AND PULL MEANING OUT OF A SONG
THAT BRENT AND I HAVE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT THIS A LOT LATELY,
WHERE A MOVIE IS SOMETHING THAT
IS PRESENTED TO YOU IN ITS
FINISHED FORM, AND THERE'S
REALLY NOT MUCH YOU CAN GRAB
OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S PRESENTED TO
YOU.
I WON'T SAY SO MUCH WITH A
PAINTING, PEOPLE FIND DIFFERENT
THINGS WITH PAINTINGS.
MUSIC IS ONE OF THE REALLY RARE
ART FORMS, WHERE YOU'RE PAINTING
ON AIR.
IT'S PURELY A -- AN ORAL, YOU
KNOW, SENSATION, AND YOU TAKE IT
IN THROUGH YOUR EARS AND YOU CAN
TURN IT INTO WHAT YOU WANT TO
TURN IT IN TO.
YOU CAN FIND MEANING THAT YOU
NEED IN IT.
AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO
BEAUTIFUL.
AND THAT IS WHAT HELPS ME, THAT
I CAN HEAR SONGS AND, YOU KNOW,
THEY MIGHT MEAN ONE THING TO ME,
BUT IT'S SO HELPFUL AND SO
THERAPEUTIC, AND THAT'S NOT AT
ALL WHAT THE ARTIST INTENNED FOR
IT TO BE ABOUT.
IT'S A PRETTY AMAZING -- PRETTY
AMAZING WAND THAT WE WAVE BEING
MUSICIANS AND SONGWRITERS, AND
TO PUT IT BACK ON THE AUDIENCE,
TOO.
>> I MEAN, AT THE END -- WE HAVE
A SAYING IN THIS BAND, VERY
REAL, WE ONLY HAVE ONE BOSS, IT
JUST HAPPENS TO BE EVERYBODY IN
THE AUDIENCE.
AND THEY HAVE GIVEN US A
PLATFORM, ULTIMATELY, TO BE
OURSELVES.
AND BRINGING IT BACK TO MUSIC,
YOU KNOW, I'VE SAID THIS QUOTE
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, BECAUSE I
THINK IT'S A BEAUTIFUL QUOTE.
BUT YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A
PHILOSOPHER THAT ONCE SAID THAT
WITHOUT MUSIC, LIFE WITHOUT BE A
MISTAKE.
YOU KNOW?
AND THAT WAS FREDERIC -- AND SO
INSIDE OF THAT, TOO, YOU KNOW,
IT'S -- WE WERE DOING AN
INTERVIEW THE OTHER DAY, ME AND
HIM, AND HE TOUCHED ON IT A
SECOND AGO, YOU KNOW, WHY IS
MUSIC SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN
OTHER ART FORMS LIKE A FILM OR A
BOOK?
AND THOSE STORIES ARE PRESENTED,
THEY'RE FINISHED, THEY'RE DONE.
AND THEY'RE RAW, BUT FINISHED
FORM.
AND A SONG, NO MATTER WHERE IT
CAME FROM, WHEN IT WAS RECORDED,
YOU KNOW, FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL,
CAN TAKE YOU TO THE PLACE YOU
NEED TO BE, TO BUILD YOU BACK
UP, IF YOU'RE DOWN.
AND IF YOU'RE HEART BROKEN,
MUSIC ALWAYS HAS A WAY AND
SONGS, ESPECIALLY, TO KIND OF
COME ON AT THE RIGHT MOMENT AND
HEAL YOUR HEART, YOU KNOW WHAT I
MEAN?
WE'VE WITNESSED IT WITH OUR OWN
EYES, WE'VE WATCHED MUSIC CURE
CANCER.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
IT'S -- IT'S A POWERFUL -- IT'S
JUST A WONDERFUL, POWERFUL, I
DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL IT, IT'S
ON ITS OWN LEVEL.
YOU KNOW?
AND THE THING IS, IT'S GREAT
ABOUT THAT, IT CONTINUOUSLY
EVOLVES.
YOU KNOW?
IT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO
EVERYBODY.
THE ALBUMS THAT WE LISTEN TO,
THE GENRES WE LISTEN TO.
IT'S ALWAYS THERE FOR YOU, IT'S
NEVER GOING TO TURN ITS BACK ON
YOU.
>> FASCINATING.
GUYS, WHAT AN AWESOME
DISCUSSION, THIS WAS AN ABSOLUTE
PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE,
ESPECIALLY MARK AND JIM, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON.
>> THANK YOU, PLEASURE.
>> AND A VERY SPECIAL THANKS TO
YOU, SHINEDOWN, FOR TAKING THE
TIME ALL THE WAY FROM NOR NOE
-- NORFOLK, VIRGINIA, THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME.
WE ARE RECORDING, THIS IS
OBVIOUSLY LIVE, BUT WE'RE
RECORDING IT AND WE'LL SEND IT
OUT AS A PODCAST, YOU CAN SEND
US, HOUSTON WE HAVE A PODCAST ON
NASA.GOV.
I THINK I'M GOING TO GET A
SELFIE OF THIS MOMENT BECAUSE IT
IS AWESOME.
THANKS AGAIN, GUYS.