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Welcome to NASA's Science Live.

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I'm your host to Tahira Allen.

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Today, you'll have the chance
to meet and ask questions

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to scientists who venture
into Earth's most extreme

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environments to help humanity
explore farther into the cosmos.

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Have you ever wondered

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how do we prepare to explore

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places
humans have never been before?

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Where should we even search
for signs of life beyond Earth?

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And what are we doing to prepare
for our next frontier?

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The moon. And then Mars?

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If so, you're in the right
place.

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The journey

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to answering these questions
begins right here on Earth,

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where our planet's most extreme
environments are used

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as testing grounds
for future missions.

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During today's show,

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you'll have the chance
to ask your own questions

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and hear
directly from our experts

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about how their expeditions

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are preparing us to explore
the moon, Mars, and beyond.

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You can drop your questions
into the comments

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wherever you're watching,

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or use the hashtag ask
NASA on social media.

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Now, studying other worlds
may sound like science fiction,

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but it often begins in some of
the most breathtaking places

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right here at home.

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Recently, NASA's
Goddard Instrument Field Team

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traveled to Iceland, a landscape
shaped by fire and ice.

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Its rugged terrain makes it
an excellent training ground,

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mirroring many of the conditions
scientists

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will encounter on the moon, Mars
and other worlds.

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By investigating
these analog environments,

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our scientists are learning
how planets work

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and paving the way for Artemis

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missions that will return humans
to the lunar surface.

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Coming
up, we'll meet some of the team

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to take your questions
live on air.

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But first, let's take a look
on the ground in Iceland.

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So we just hiked up the

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slopes of the Hecla volcano
in southwest Iceland.

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This particular site
is important for lunar research.

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The regolith on the lunar
surface is pretty fluffy,

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and we think there could be,

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small grains of water
ice hosted within that.

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So today,
we have a few of our teammates

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setting up some ground
penetrating radar surveys.

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And what it does is it makes
a 2D slice of the subsurface

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and we use that to understand

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what sort of material
we're looking at.

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Look at those. Reflect.

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Oh yeah.

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Let's go look at ice grains

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we brought in in order to drill
down into the subsurface

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to confirm
our observations. Oh.

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So that we can actually ground
truth,

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the observations that we make
with the GPR. Yeah.

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And you can
see the sparkles of the ice.

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That's a good shot.

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That's really nothing.

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Get of our polar scientist.

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More exciting than ice crystals.

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I'm so excited
for show and tell.

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We have something to share.

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So we're going to drill
through the snow

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and look at the transitions
from snowed ice

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to, volcanic, sediments.

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We'll get going.

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Hopefully we'll see some ice
cemented volcanic sediments,

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and then we'll see how deep
we can get.

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Yeah.

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Here's

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one. Yes.

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And so a lot of the ice
as we move

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through here
has different characteristics.

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Some of them are just filling
tiny pores.

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Some of them are

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actually cementing it

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as they look for ice
underneath the surface.

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What I am trying to do

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is learn to characterize
that ice and do that

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using visible imagery
like cameras,

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and how best to capture them
to help learn how we can prepare

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astronauts in the future.

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I'm just really excited

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about the prospect
of doing actual geology

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on the surface of the moon,
and as we work our way toward

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Mars, so it's really a dream
come true, and I can't believe

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I'm actually
going to be a part of it.

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And so I'm I'm so excited.

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I'm joined now by 
Emileigh Shoemaker Thackston,

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a planetary scientist

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who you just saw on top
of an active volcano in Iceland.

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Emily. That's amazing. So cool.

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Thank you so much
for being here with us.

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Thanks so much for having me.

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So again, we just saw you on
top of an active volcano

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doing science. Can you kind of
put us in your shoes?

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How was that?

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Yeah,
it's it's really breathtaking

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when you get to the top
of a mountain like that

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and you're looking down
over this

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unvegetated landscape,
and that looks a lot like Mars

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or what
the moon might look like.

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And you can really just
put yourself

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in the shoes of the astronauts
or boots, I should say.

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On the surface of those worlds,
when they go out

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to explore them in the future.

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So for me,
that was the most exciting part.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it really looked
otherworldly, which is amazing.

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So can you remind us, you know,
what was it

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you were there to do and
what were you trying to learn?

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So we went out into the field
with, with

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three main objectives.

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One was, to think
about how much ice there is

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and what it looks like.

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And then,

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can we actually measure
that with the ground

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penetrating radar
that you saw in the video?

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So geophysical instrumentation,
and

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and then we were interested in
how deep it actually is.

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So is it accessible
for future astronauts.

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And we did that with a variety
of tools, including the GPR.

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We also had

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you saw our drill and auger
where we were pulling up

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samples of ice
from the subsurface,

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and then we were imaging, 
all of our samples

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with a camera, 
and trying to understand

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how how,

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how astronauts

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might actually do this
on the moon when we get there.

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So you really were
putting yourself

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in, like,
the boots of the explorer.

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So you mentioned GPR.

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Dr.. Can you tell us
what what is that?

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So GPR is ground
penetrating radar.

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It's an electromagnetic
geophysical instrument.

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So what that means
is we're actually sending

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microwaves like you might have
in your home,

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down into the subsurface.

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And that bounces

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off of different materials,
and it returns to the radar,

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system at different speeds.

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And from that,
we can actually know

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what we're looking at
in the subsurface.

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That is so cool.

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Now, I have one more question,

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but I want to remind our viewers
at home,

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start sending in your questions
for Emily

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by dropping them in the comments
wherever you're watching,

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or send them in using hashtag
Ask NASA.

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Now, Emily, again,
you told us about

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what you were doing,
what you're hoping to find.

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Can you help explain?

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You know, how will this help
our future astronauts?

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Is or are they planning

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to do this on the lunar surface
one day?

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Yeah.

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So the tools that we had out
in the field with us,

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we were actually trying to think
about

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what they would really have
on the surface.

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And several of those they
probably or possibly will have.

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So there's actually been
a type of ground

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penetrating radar

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selected to ride along
on the lunar terrain vehicle.

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So the cart that the astronauts

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will be riding around
on, on the surface,

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that can help them
do their surveying.

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And they also might have access

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to things like shovels or drills
and retrieve the samples.

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And they'll
certainly have cameras.

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So we were trying to really
think about what they're doing

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on the surface,
how they'll do it,

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and what would be most helpful,
as we look for this

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buried water ice. Amazing.

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So I do have a question
real quick from Emily F

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on YouTube
who asks, wow, this is so cool.

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How often do these teams
go into the field and do they

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study or learn different things
depending on the time of year?

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Oh yeah, certainly.
So that's a great question.

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Our particular team,

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tries to go out
maybe once or twice a year.

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We usually try
to go in the summer

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just because that's safer for us

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in these really cold
environments.

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Iceland can be really snowy
and dangerous in the winter.

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So we tend to go out
when it's a bit warmer.

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But you, you definitely learn

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different things
at different times of the year.

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And the seasons
sometimes might correspond

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to what we think, 
other planets might be like.

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So the analog could depend
on the time of year too.

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Amazing.

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So I have a I have a great
follow up question.

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It's from Guy the dude human
on YouTube who asks,

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do you do you guys at NASA
always go to Iceland

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to prepare for space travel,
or do you visit other places?

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And if you do,
what are some examples?

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Yeah, a great question.

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No, we

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don't only go to Iceland, though

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I will say Iceland offers
one of the better,

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really accessible
analogs for us.

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But we've gone to other places
like, the Valley of 10,000

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Smokes in Alaska,
which is a very remote location

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on the Katmai Peninsula
in Alaska,

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where we were looking for
actually similar questions.

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Some people were looking at
the volcanoes that were there.

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My team was looking at buried
ice, as you can imagine.

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So we go all over the world.

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There's, really no limit to

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to what a good analog
might be on Earth.

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Is it?

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So is it just a coincidence
that that was also a volcano?

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Is there a correlation
between volcanoes

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and looking for water ice?

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No, that was just a
that was just a coincidence.

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Just because of the climate
there.

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It's very similar to Iceland.

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So just happened to be
a good spot.

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Awesome.

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So we have 
we have another question

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from Ask Plex on X, who asks are
Earth and Mars made?

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Basically
do they have the same materials?

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And I know a little bit earlier
we were talking about your,

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your instruments

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could also apply
to finding water ice on Mars.

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And so could
you talk a little bit

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about the potential of water
ice on Mars, if that's the thing

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that future explorers
could actually look for?

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Yeah, certainly.

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So, yeah, there,

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there are similar composition
rocks to what we might find

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on the moon or Mars.

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And so in some cases,
depending on what

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your science question might be,

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you might want to look at that.

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And can you remind me what you,
you wanted me to address too?

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Well, yeah.

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If there.

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So right now,
you were looking for water ice.

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But for the moon aspect,
is that something

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that future astronauts
could discover on Mars, too?

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Oh, yes. Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah. The.

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There's certainly
a lot of water ice on Mars.

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And we've actually been mapping
that, for decades now

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using orbital radar
instrumentation.

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So we actually think
there's many meters

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of ice buried
at different latitudes on Mars.

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And certainly you have two polar

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ice caps on Mars,
very similar to Earth.

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And so when you're looking

254
00:10:32,598 --> 00:10:35,101
even in your experiment
for Iceland in the moon,

255
00:10:35,101 --> 00:10:38,571
are we looking for
like big pockets of water

256
00:10:38,571 --> 00:10:42,341
ice, like cubes, little,
little grains of ice?

257
00:10:42,341 --> 00:10:43,809
What are you searching for?

258
00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:44,810
Yeah. Good question.

259
00:10:44,810 --> 00:10:47,013
So that's that's
definitely something

260
00:10:47,013 --> 00:10:47,313
that we're

261
00:10:47,313 --> 00:10:50,349
hoping to learn more about
when we get to the South Pole.

262
00:10:50,349 --> 00:10:51,884
The moon through Artemis.

263
00:10:51,884 --> 00:10:54,420
But I think right now
we're expecting

264
00:10:54,420 --> 00:10:56,422
we might find something
like grains, maybe,

265
00:10:56,422 --> 00:10:58,391
like, similar to what
we're actually seeing at Hecla.

266
00:10:58,391 --> 00:10:59,392
And Iceland.

267
00:10:59,392 --> 00:11:02,795
But there is the potential
for many meters

268
00:11:02,795 --> 00:11:05,965
of, of thicker ice to be buried 
in the subsurface, too.

269
00:11:05,965 --> 00:11:07,233
But we don't think as shallowly

270
00:11:07,233 --> 00:11:09,335
as maybe what
the astronauts could access.

271
00:11:09,335 --> 00:11:10,469
Cool.

272
00:11:10,469 --> 00:11:14,640
So I have a follow up
question from Ravi on ECS,

273
00:11:14,940 --> 00:11:17,810
who asks,
how do these analog sites help

274
00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:21,714
prepare for future missions
to potentially icy moons?

275
00:11:22,114 --> 00:11:23,916
Oh, okay. Icy moons.

276
00:11:23,916 --> 00:11:26,519
There's going to be some later,
talk about that

277
00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:28,254
with one of the other guests
on the program.

278
00:11:28,254 --> 00:11:32,358
But, certainly,
there are sites on Earth that

279
00:11:32,358 --> 00:11:36,295
we could go to to think about,
what icy moons might be like.

280
00:11:36,295 --> 00:11:39,065
Maybe for our robotic
explorers first,

281
00:11:39,065 --> 00:11:40,332
because that tends to be
a really,

282
00:11:40,332 --> 00:11:41,967
really extreme environment.

283
00:11:41,967 --> 00:11:45,271
But you could go to places
like the Arctic or Antarctica

284
00:11:45,271 --> 00:11:47,673
to, to explore questions
about icy moons.

285
00:11:47,673 --> 00:11:49,942
And there are teams
doing that right now.

286
00:11:49,942 --> 00:11:52,778
Do do we think that our own moon

287
00:11:52,778 --> 00:11:56,348
has a lot of water
ice potentially available on it?

288
00:11:56,882 --> 00:11:57,850
Yeah, I think,

289
00:11:58,951 --> 00:12:01,253
I think the thought
is that there is a lot of water

290
00:12:01,253 --> 00:12:04,256
ice that we, we could access,
especially at the poles.

291
00:12:04,356 --> 00:12:06,425
But there's other ways
that the moon gets water

292
00:12:06,425 --> 00:12:07,593
delivered to its surface.

293
00:12:07,593 --> 00:12:10,596
So you can actually get
little molecules of,

294
00:12:10,763 --> 00:12:13,966
H2O forming
from the deposition of hydrogen

295
00:12:13,966 --> 00:12:15,534
through the solar wind
and things like that.

296
00:12:15,534 --> 00:12:16,502
So you actually might have

297
00:12:16,502 --> 00:12:19,505
a bit of a larger water
reservoir than you'd think.

298
00:12:19,805 --> 00:12:22,942
And can you help us understand
why does that matter?

299
00:12:23,075 --> 00:12:26,145
Like why are we interested
in looking for water

300
00:12:26,145 --> 00:12:27,446
ice on the moon?

301
00:12:27,446 --> 00:12:29,081
It's really important
for humans.

302
00:12:29,081 --> 00:12:30,583
We can do
all sorts of things with it.

303
00:12:30,583 --> 00:12:32,852
I mean, most importantly,
it's the water we drink.

304
00:12:32,852 --> 00:12:36,489
But it also can be things
like fuel, for our spaceships

305
00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:37,890
and and rockets.

306
00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:42,061
And as we make our way toward
Mars, we need to understand how

307
00:12:42,061 --> 00:12:43,429
how we can use that water

308
00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:45,364
to sustain
our presence on the moon

309
00:12:45,364 --> 00:12:47,266
and then how we'll use that
going forward

310
00:12:47,266 --> 00:12:48,300
when we explore Mars.

311
00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,302
And hopefully we have access
to more water there.

312
00:12:50,302 --> 00:12:51,737
Yeah, I mean, water is life.

313
00:12:51,737 --> 00:12:54,273
So it like it makes sense
that we're looking for it

314
00:12:54,273 --> 00:12:56,275
in all of these faraway places.
Yeah.

315
00:12:56,275 --> 00:13:00,546
And so actually, a great follow
up is from Brian on Twitch.

316
00:13:00,846 --> 00:13:04,283
Who wants to know what signs
could an astronaut actually

317
00:13:04,283 --> 00:13:06,051
look for
when they're trying to find

318
00:13:06,051 --> 00:13:08,053
water
ice on the surface of the moon?

319
00:13:08,053 --> 00:13:08,354
Yeah.

320
00:13:08,354 --> 00:13:09,855
So that's a really tough
question.

321
00:13:09,855 --> 00:13:13,225
We, you know, we
when we were in the field,

322
00:13:13,225 --> 00:13:15,127
you didn't necessarily
see that the water

323
00:13:15,127 --> 00:13:16,962
ice was present at the surface.

324
00:13:16,962 --> 00:13:17,863
So we needed to use

325
00:13:17,863 --> 00:13:21,200
our geophysical instrumentation
to be our eyes in the ground.

326
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,802
These are the microwaves.
Yeah. Yeah.

327
00:13:22,802 --> 00:13:24,203
The the GPR,

328
00:13:24,203 --> 00:13:27,540
So we were using that
to see into the subsurface,

329
00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:30,543
and then we knew where to target
to drill and retrieve samples.

330
00:13:30,576 --> 00:13:31,744
And we think the astronauts
are going

331
00:13:31,744 --> 00:13:33,445
to have to do something
pretty similar.

332
00:13:33,445 --> 00:13:34,880
You won't really see, like,

333
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,383
you know, a block of ice sitting
on the surface of the moon.

334
00:13:37,383 --> 00:13:41,153
It's got to be protected by
the lunar by the lunar regolith.

335
00:13:41,854 --> 00:13:44,523
So I guess the answer is really
by using the technology

336
00:13:44,523 --> 00:13:46,692
that your team
is testing, which is cool.

337
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,763
Our next question is from.

338
00:13:53,132 --> 00:13:55,167
Citizen on YouTube.

339
00:13:55,167 --> 00:13:56,101
Who wants to know

340
00:13:56,101 --> 00:13:57,636
what is the most
interesting thing

341
00:13:57,636 --> 00:14:00,105
you think we could find
on the moon?

342
00:14:00,105 --> 00:14:04,443
Well, I'm I'm really biased
because I, I find, like,

343
00:14:04,443 --> 00:14:06,579
the water ice question
to be really exciting.

344
00:14:06,579 --> 00:14:08,247
I just think that's so exotic.

345
00:14:08,247 --> 00:14:10,416
On on a body like the moon on.

346
00:14:10,416 --> 00:14:11,584
Yeah.

347
00:14:11,584 --> 00:14:14,787
But I, I'm also, I also
am interested in volcanoes,

348
00:14:14,787 --> 00:14:17,723
so I'm very excited about,
like, any, any mission

349
00:14:17,723 --> 00:14:20,359
that might go and explore
the volcanoes on the moon,

350
00:14:20,359 --> 00:14:22,828
perhaps something
like the gritties and domes,

351
00:14:22,828 --> 00:14:24,730
or lava tubes on the moon.

352
00:14:24,730 --> 00:14:27,533
Those are also really exciting.
Awesome.

353
00:14:27,533 --> 00:14:31,437
Our next question is from Mikey,
16 on YouTube,

354
00:14:31,737 --> 00:14:35,875
who asks, will this help future
astronauts like on the Artemis

355
00:14:35,941 --> 00:14:37,343
three mission?

356
00:14:37,343 --> 00:14:39,645
Yeah, certainly. Yeah.

357
00:14:39,645 --> 00:14:43,182
So a lot of our research,
is is thinking about, you

358
00:14:43,182 --> 00:14:46,185
know, how astronauts are going
to work on the surface.

359
00:14:46,252 --> 00:14:49,688
Artemis three is kind of one
of our first jumping off points,

360
00:14:49,955 --> 00:14:51,757
of doing of doing that.

361
00:14:51,757 --> 00:14:55,394
And, hopefully it'll set us up
so that we have a better idea

362
00:14:55,394 --> 00:14:59,131
of how we're actually going
to do, water ice retrieval

363
00:14:59,131 --> 00:15:02,134
on the surface of the moon
long term as Artemis continues.

364
00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:05,738
So, Emily, how did you even get
into this kind of science?

365
00:15:05,905 --> 00:15:08,107
That's a good question.

366
00:15:08,107 --> 00:15:11,644
My path wasn't always,
like, direct into science.

367
00:15:11,644 --> 00:15:14,613
I, I started out as a person

368
00:15:14,613 --> 00:15:16,548
that really enjoyed,
like, music.

369
00:15:16,548 --> 00:15:18,417
And so I thought I was going
to go to school for that.

370
00:15:18,417 --> 00:15:21,053
And then I decided
to go to school for physics,

371
00:15:21,053 --> 00:15:24,390
and I, I did my first astronomy
project,

372
00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:28,560
looking at the Milky Way galaxy
and mapping that with, with,

373
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,930
with radio waves,
so very similar to ground

374
00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:33,299
penetrating radar, but
looking up at the sky instead.

375
00:15:33,299 --> 00:15:35,768
And then I got very interested
in Mars after that.

376
00:15:35,768 --> 00:15:38,203
And the rest is history.
Wow. Amazing.

377
00:15:38,203 --> 00:15:39,638
And then now the moon. Yes.

378
00:15:39,638 --> 00:15:41,507
So that's awesome.

379
00:15:41,507 --> 00:15:44,810
So we have a another question

380
00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:47,813
from Annabel who asks,

381
00:15:48,047 --> 00:15:51,016
you know, what are you hoping
to find on the moon or Mars?

382
00:15:51,016 --> 00:15:52,918
I think you alluded to this
a little bit earlier,

383
00:15:52,918 --> 00:15:54,653
but again,
can you expand, you know,

384
00:15:54,653 --> 00:15:56,755
what is the big focal point
for your team?

385
00:15:56,755 --> 00:15:58,057
What would be a win

386
00:15:58,057 --> 00:15:59,758
for for your team in the work

387
00:15:59,758 --> 00:16:02,361
that you're doing when it comes
to these two planets?

388
00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:04,563
Yeah, I think well,
so for the moon, I think

389
00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:08,233
it would be really exciting
to just be able to locate

390
00:16:08,634 --> 00:16:12,304
buried water ice rapidly
and have it easily retrievable

391
00:16:12,304 --> 00:16:12,972
for the astronauts.

392
00:16:12,972 --> 00:16:14,773
So I think that's like
the big goal.

393
00:16:14,773 --> 00:16:16,275
And if our research

394
00:16:16,275 --> 00:16:19,278
can make that easier
and help them do that quickly,

395
00:16:19,445 --> 00:16:22,348
then I think we've then
I think we've achieved our goal.

396
00:16:22,348 --> 00:16:26,285
And for Mars, the longer term
goal is, is thinking about,

397
00:16:26,285 --> 00:16:29,254
you know,
bigger reservoirs of water ice.

398
00:16:29,388 --> 00:16:31,023
It's just as hard to get to.

399
00:16:31,023 --> 00:16:34,026
So thinking about how
are we going to extract more,

400
00:16:34,093 --> 00:16:35,194
what does that look like?

401
00:16:35,194 --> 00:16:38,297
And, and how are astronauts
going to expand their presence

402
00:16:38,297 --> 00:16:40,232
on the surface of Mars
in the future? To do that,

403
00:16:41,533 --> 00:16:44,503
I have a question from McFlurry
Mac on Twitch.

404
00:16:44,503 --> 00:16:45,504
Who asks,

405
00:16:45,504 --> 00:16:49,241
how are we sure that the ice on
the moon is actually ice?

406
00:16:50,376 --> 00:16:52,878
Well, that's a good question.

407
00:16:52,878 --> 00:16:56,382
I, I think, you know,
we have to be patient and maybe

408
00:16:56,382 --> 00:17:00,352
wait until we get to the surface
to to confirm that 100%.

409
00:17:00,352 --> 00:17:04,323
But we've had a lot of orbital
instrumentation, show

410
00:17:04,323 --> 00:17:07,960
that that what we are finding
is indeed water ice.

411
00:17:08,260 --> 00:17:11,430
We had the El Cross impactor
actually

412
00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:14,666
hit the surface of the moon and,
and,

413
00:17:14,733 --> 00:17:18,203
and release some of that water
ice into, into space.

414
00:17:18,203 --> 00:17:19,938
And then we measured. Be sure.
Yeah.

415
00:17:19,938 --> 00:17:22,107
Okay. Awesome.

416
00:17:22,107 --> 00:17:24,576
And so Emily too,
you were talking about your

417
00:17:24,576 --> 00:17:26,545
your work
and you were identifying

418
00:17:26,545 --> 00:17:29,815
where water ice could be,
but did your team also,

419
00:17:30,349 --> 00:17:32,017
you know,
test how you can retrieve it?

420
00:17:33,152 --> 00:17:34,420
Yeah, a little bit.

421
00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:36,722
I would say
we were mostly retrieving it

422
00:17:36,722 --> 00:17:39,858
for ourselves to make sure that
what we were looking at in

423
00:17:39,858 --> 00:17:43,295
the subsurface with the GPR,
was indeed there.

424
00:17:43,295 --> 00:17:45,397
So we wanted to make sure
what we were looking at was ice.

425
00:17:45,397 --> 00:17:46,465
But certainly

426
00:17:46,465 --> 00:17:50,502
there are drills in the works
to be deployed on the surface.

427
00:17:50,502 --> 00:17:52,938
So the auger that you saw in
the video

428
00:17:52,938 --> 00:17:54,706
could be really similar
to something

429
00:17:54,706 --> 00:17:56,875
that that might be used
in the future.

430
00:17:56,875 --> 00:17:59,678
Well, so cool, Emily,
I hope your research

431
00:17:59,678 --> 00:18:01,947
and your science
makes it to the moon one day.

432
00:18:01,947 --> 00:18:03,615
Thank you so much for being here
with us.

433
00:18:03,615 --> 00:18:05,884
Yeah,
thanks so much for having me.

434
00:18:05,884 --> 00:18:07,586
And now let's venture

435
00:18:07,586 --> 00:18:09,555
further out
into our solar system

436
00:18:09,555 --> 00:18:11,190
beyond the moon, to a world

437
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:14,059
that we've had our eyes on
for a very long time.

438
00:18:14,059 --> 00:18:16,195
From orbiters
to landers to rovers.

439
00:18:16,195 --> 00:18:18,997
We have been studying Mars
for decades,

440
00:18:18,997 --> 00:18:21,567
but there is still so much left
to learn.

441
00:18:21,567 --> 00:18:24,803
Now, believe it or not,
Iceland is also home to rocks

442
00:18:24,803 --> 00:18:27,306
that are very similar
to those that our rovers

443
00:18:27,306 --> 00:18:29,975
and future
humans will study on Mars.

444
00:18:29,975 --> 00:18:32,377
Let's go along to another team
on the expedition

445
00:18:32,377 --> 00:18:35,114
to see how Iceland can teach
us about the Red planet,

446
00:18:36,849 --> 00:18:39,852
and tell me when they want one
more.

447
00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:40,953
Let's go one more.

448
00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:43,789
I'm David Burt,
part of the Swift mission.

449
00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:47,126
We're here at Lake Kleifarvatn
looking for carbonates

450
00:18:47,126 --> 00:18:50,729
and and, some other carbon
rich species.

451
00:18:52,598 --> 00:18:55,601
We don't understand how,

452
00:18:55,767 --> 00:18:59,905
the carbon cycle works on
on planets and planetary bodies

453
00:18:59,905 --> 00:19:03,075
beyond Earth, Iceland
and Lake Kleifarvatan

454
00:19:03,075 --> 00:19:06,078
as a whole provide
a really nice analog.

455
00:19:13,185 --> 00:19:14,353
I'm Mike Thorpe, I'm

456
00:19:14,353 --> 00:19:17,789
an assistant research scientist
at the University of Maryland

457
00:19:17,789 --> 00:19:19,691
and NASA
Goddard Space Flight Center.

458
00:19:19,691 --> 00:19:21,994
We're at this region
called store Loxo,

459
00:19:21,994 --> 00:19:24,897
which is in the southwest
region of ice, and it's a river

460
00:19:24,897 --> 00:19:27,332
that is kind of carving
through these basalts

461
00:19:27,332 --> 00:19:29,468
that were laid down
by volcanic activity.

462
00:19:29,468 --> 00:19:32,371
So our goal is to kind of
look at the change of like

463
00:19:32,371 --> 00:19:34,206
how you go from sediments
in a stream

464
00:19:34,206 --> 00:19:37,209
to kind of a sedimentary rock,
and what happens in between.

465
00:19:37,242 --> 00:19:38,644
They're widespread on Mars.

466
00:19:38,644 --> 00:19:40,479
I mean, it's
the majority of it's

467
00:19:40,479 --> 00:19:41,880
almost all
what curiosity's like.

468
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,517
That is rocks
ever formed in a lake in rivers.

469
00:19:45,884 --> 00:19:47,853
But really as one on
one comparison,

470
00:19:47,853 --> 00:19:50,622
as I've come across so excited
to get our hands on it.

471
00:19:56,128 --> 00:19:58,063
We're pulling a mix of samples
here.

472
00:19:58,063 --> 00:20:01,066
We're getting gases,
we're getting fluids,

473
00:20:01,099 --> 00:20:03,969
we're getting, sediment
core samples.

474
00:20:03,969 --> 00:20:06,438
It's called the heart, in part
because of its shape.

475
00:20:06,438 --> 00:20:10,409
It's a relatively shallow spot,
and you've got CO2

476
00:20:10,409 --> 00:20:13,412
rich bubbles
coming up out of this sediment.

477
00:20:14,246 --> 00:20:17,716
There's a ton of information
to be to be interrogated here.

478
00:20:17,983 --> 00:20:20,586
What does life need to operate?

479
00:20:20,586 --> 00:20:22,521
And we're
particularly focused on carbon

480
00:20:22,521 --> 00:20:25,891
since that happens
to be one of the big elements

481
00:20:26,258 --> 00:20:29,261
that underpins life
as we know it.

482
00:20:34,566 --> 00:20:37,603
Everyone know we came across
the perfect corpse from May.

483
00:20:37,603 --> 00:20:40,205
We were seen as kind of
siltstone, some mudstone.

484
00:20:40,205 --> 00:20:41,640
So they're really fine
grained material,

485
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,874
which are a perfect

486
00:20:42,874 --> 00:20:45,210
because those are deposited
in like a lake environment.

487
00:20:45,210 --> 00:20:48,180
So a very habitable environment.

488
00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:49,982
This is super exciting for me.

489
00:20:49,982 --> 00:20:50,515
This is

490
00:20:50,515 --> 00:20:52,684
I mean, we've been looking
at sedimentary rocks

491
00:20:52,684 --> 00:20:55,120
that have been formed
and similar processes on Mars,

492
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,421
and it's really cool

493
00:20:56,421 --> 00:20:58,423
to be holding a piece
of information like this.

494
00:21:00,058 --> 00:21:02,194
I come back to the idea that

495
00:21:02,194 --> 00:21:05,797
the average landscape around us
can tell us so much

496
00:21:06,231 --> 00:21:09,101
about the world
we're currently living in,

497
00:21:09,101 --> 00:21:12,604
the history of, of our planet
and other worlds,

498
00:21:12,604 --> 00:21:15,574
as well.

499
00:21:17,409 --> 00:21:17,943
From beneath

500
00:21:17,943 --> 00:21:19,444
lakes to the peaks of mountains,

501
00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:22,581
it is incredible to watch
these scientists in action.

502
00:21:22,714 --> 00:21:23,448
And I'm joined

503
00:21:23,448 --> 00:21:27,286
now by one that you just met
in the rain and fog of Iceland,

504
00:21:27,486 --> 00:21:30,856
Michael Thorpe, a sedimentary
and planetary geologist.

505
00:21:31,323 --> 00:21:33,458
Mike, that looked like quite
the expedition.

506
00:21:33,458 --> 00:21:34,726
Excited to get into that.

507
00:21:34,726 --> 00:21:36,261
Thank you for being here
with us.

508
00:21:36,261 --> 00:21:37,963
Yeah,
thanks for having me Tahira.

509
00:21:37,963 --> 00:21:39,164
So earlier,

510
00:21:39,164 --> 00:21:40,999
before we were talking,
you mentioned that

511
00:21:40,999 --> 00:21:43,268
this is not your first time
out in the field.

512
00:21:43,268 --> 00:21:44,436
Can you give us an idea of

513
00:21:44,436 --> 00:21:47,406
some of the places you visited
and what you were studying?

514
00:21:47,806 --> 00:21:47,973
Yeah.

515
00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:49,908
So field
geology is kind of the reason

516
00:21:49,908 --> 00:21:51,943
I got into this profession
in the first place.

517
00:21:51,943 --> 00:21:54,746
And so I'm excited to be out
there. That's my happy place.

518
00:21:54,746 --> 00:21:58,317
I started out in long Island,
during my graduate studies,

519
00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:00,185
and then made it all
the way west to Hawaii

520
00:22:00,185 --> 00:22:02,721
and hit a bunch of places
in the States in between.

521
00:22:02,721 --> 00:22:05,724
I've gone abroad to Lanzarote,
Spain.

522
00:22:05,724 --> 00:22:07,059
Turks and Caicos.

523
00:22:07,059 --> 00:22:08,493
I've been to Hawaii
a couple of times,

524
00:22:08,493 --> 00:22:11,530
so a bunch of different places
that I've been super fortunate,

525
00:22:11,763 --> 00:22:12,898
to go to.

526
00:22:12,898 --> 00:22:14,599
And so why these places, though?

527
00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:17,736
Were they, similar to,
I guess, other places

528
00:22:17,736 --> 00:22:20,405
NASA was trying to study
in the solar system.

529
00:22:20,405 --> 00:22:20,572
Yeah.

530
00:22:20,572 --> 00:22:23,175
So every analog,
there's no perfect analog.

531
00:22:23,175 --> 00:22:24,109
It's the thing there's nothing

532
00:22:24,109 --> 00:22:26,345
that matches, Mars
here on Earth,

533
00:22:26,345 --> 00:22:29,381
but we try to target
specific features or processes

534
00:22:29,381 --> 00:22:31,216
that we try to understand
better here on Earth,

535
00:22:31,216 --> 00:22:33,185
to apply that
to other planets to.

536
00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:34,953
So each of these places offer

537
00:22:34,953 --> 00:22:35,687
something unique

538
00:22:35,687 --> 00:22:36,988
that I can learn something about

539
00:22:36,988 --> 00:22:37,656
and apply

540
00:22:37,656 --> 00:22:38,523
what I'm learning here

541
00:22:38,523 --> 00:22:40,525
in the terrestrial environment
to what we're seeing kind of

542
00:22:40,525 --> 00:22:42,394
in a martian environment
as well.

543
00:22:42,394 --> 00:22:44,262
And that's what you were doing
in Iceland, right?

544
00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:45,664
So we saw that your team

545
00:22:45,664 --> 00:22:48,800
discovered these amazing, 
mud and silt stones.

546
00:22:49,067 --> 00:22:51,470
Can you tell us
how these rocks in Iceland

547
00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:54,873
are helping us learn things
about the rocks on Mars?

548
00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:55,540
Yeah.

549
00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:57,709
So being up close and personal
with these rocks

550
00:22:57,709 --> 00:23:00,178
gives us a really good idea
of how they form

551
00:23:00,178 --> 00:23:01,613
kind of what climate
they were in.

552
00:23:01,613 --> 00:23:04,049
And so we use what
we see on the ground

553
00:23:04,049 --> 00:23:06,518
in Iceland and compared directly
to what the rovers are seeing.

554
00:23:06,518 --> 00:23:09,621
So the rovers are akin
to our kind of geologists

555
00:23:09,621 --> 00:23:10,322
on the ground there.

556
00:23:10,322 --> 00:23:12,124
And all they've been seeing are

557
00:23:12,124 --> 00:23:15,927
kind of these mud stones and, 
kind of river rocks as well.

558
00:23:15,927 --> 00:23:16,995
And so these things

559
00:23:16,995 --> 00:23:18,797
we know forming
those kind of environments,

560
00:23:18,797 --> 00:23:21,066
and that's why we're trying
to tackle those in Iceland.

561
00:23:21,066 --> 00:23:23,201
And it was really
a remarkable comparison.

562
00:23:23,201 --> 00:23:23,835
It was the best.

563
00:23:23,835 --> 00:23:25,537
I mean, I call them
my number one outcrop

564
00:23:25,537 --> 00:23:28,073
that I've been to before.
And that's really. Yeah.

565
00:23:28,073 --> 00:23:28,940
Oh my goodness.

566
00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:30,041
And so, you know,

567
00:23:30,041 --> 00:23:32,277
what do you think
is the most important part

568
00:23:32,277 --> 00:23:35,280
then about going into the field
and doing science like this.

569
00:23:35,814 --> 00:23:37,582
I mean when you so for instance,

570
00:23:37,582 --> 00:23:40,051
if you're looking at Google
Maps, like you get a good idea

571
00:23:40,051 --> 00:23:42,154
what's going on from above,
but when you're out there

572
00:23:42,154 --> 00:23:43,155
getting your hands dirty,

573
00:23:43,155 --> 00:23:45,157
dirty, literally
getting your hands dirty

574
00:23:45,157 --> 00:23:46,458
in the field,
you learn so much more

575
00:23:46,458 --> 00:23:48,260
about what you're
you're looking at there too.

576
00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:49,728
And and same thing
goes with Mars.

577
00:23:49,728 --> 00:23:50,562
When you're looking at remote

578
00:23:50,562 --> 00:23:51,897
sensing data,
you can learn a lot.

579
00:23:51,897 --> 00:23:53,198
But when you're on the on
the ground

580
00:23:53,198 --> 00:23:54,566
with the rover,
you learn so much more.

581
00:23:54,566 --> 00:23:56,168
So actually having these samples

582
00:23:56,168 --> 00:23:58,537
in hand gives us kind of
a different piece of the puzzle

583
00:23:58,537 --> 00:24:01,306
that we wouldn't have otherwise.
Cool.

584
00:24:01,306 --> 00:24:03,775
Now we've got a ton
of social questions coming

585
00:24:03,775 --> 00:24:05,877
in, so I'm going to get to those
in just a few minutes.

586
00:24:05,877 --> 00:24:09,047
But again, as a reminder,
for those tuning in, feel free

587
00:24:09,047 --> 00:24:11,416
to drop your questions
for Mike into the comments

588
00:24:11,416 --> 00:24:12,517
wherever you're watching,

589
00:24:12,517 --> 00:24:15,620
or use the hashtag ask
NASA on social media.

590
00:24:16,388 --> 00:24:18,457
Okay, let's
see what we have coming in.

591
00:24:18,457 --> 00:24:21,226
So we have your Empress

592
00:24:21,226 --> 00:24:24,930
on YouTube who asks,
what limitations do Earth

593
00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:28,867
based test sites have compared
to real conditions on Mars?

594
00:24:30,035 --> 00:24:32,637
Yeah, we always have to kind of
do the pluses

595
00:24:32,637 --> 00:24:35,807
and minus one analog provides
versus another analog.

596
00:24:35,807 --> 00:24:37,609
So for instance,
I've done a bunch of fieldwork

597
00:24:37,609 --> 00:24:38,877
in Iceland
where we're looking at

598
00:24:38,877 --> 00:24:40,679
modern sediments
that are in the river.

599
00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:43,215
But everything we're looking at
on Mars is, is lithium, right.

600
00:24:43,215 --> 00:24:44,916
And and so the limitation
there was like

601
00:24:44,916 --> 00:24:47,018
these rocks have experienced
some compression

602
00:24:47,018 --> 00:24:50,021
and things over time
that changes composition.

603
00:24:50,121 --> 00:24:52,357
This time I was lucky to
actually find those rocks there.

604
00:24:52,357 --> 00:24:54,626
But it's also different
atmospheres

605
00:24:54,626 --> 00:24:55,694
that we're dealing with.

606
00:24:55,694 --> 00:24:56,862
Sometimes it's different

607
00:24:56,862 --> 00:24:58,897
kind of starting materials
that you're dealing with.

608
00:24:58,897 --> 00:25:02,567
Sometimes it's it's more rain,
sometimes there's vegetation.

609
00:25:02,567 --> 00:25:03,935
You just can't get away
from that on Earth.

610
00:25:03,935 --> 00:25:06,204
So that's why we go to all these
different places

611
00:25:06,204 --> 00:25:09,107
to kind of piece together
a bunch of different pieces

612
00:25:09,107 --> 00:25:10,609
of the puzzle,
to kind of understand

613
00:25:10,609 --> 00:25:13,545
more a comprehensive story,
if you will.

614
00:25:13,545 --> 00:25:14,112
Yeah.

615
00:25:14,112 --> 00:25:16,181
And so when you say liquified,
can you break that down?

616
00:25:16,181 --> 00:25:16,882
For us,

617
00:25:16,882 --> 00:25:17,649
the lithium side

618
00:25:17,649 --> 00:25:21,419
is just taking sediments
that are on out in the,

619
00:25:21,419 --> 00:25:21,953
out on Earth

620
00:25:21,953 --> 00:25:24,256
here, whether it's like dirt
that you're leary out

621
00:25:24,256 --> 00:25:26,791
there were on, on the river
itself and just compressing it.

622
00:25:26,791 --> 00:25:28,059
And so over time,

623
00:25:28,059 --> 00:25:29,494
you really are just compressing

624
00:25:29,494 --> 00:25:31,663
and smushing it
into a rock itself.

625
00:25:31,663 --> 00:25:34,533
And so does it matter either
that, you know,

626
00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:36,801
these rocks on Earth
are a lot younger than the rocks

627
00:25:36,801 --> 00:25:38,503
that we're
seeing on Mars? Does that?

628
00:25:39,504 --> 00:25:40,906
Yeah, it definitely matters.

629
00:25:40,906 --> 00:25:42,340
It changes some of the minerals

630
00:25:42,340 --> 00:25:45,343
that I look at,
but it's also pretty remarkable.

631
00:25:45,443 --> 00:25:47,846
I'm actually quite shocked
how similar the data

632
00:25:47,846 --> 00:25:48,747
that I've been seeing from

633
00:25:48,747 --> 00:25:50,382
some of these trips are

634
00:25:50,382 --> 00:25:52,717
a similar to what we're seeing
from the Martian rover.

635
00:25:52,717 --> 00:25:56,655
So that shows that something
unique happened in Mars

636
00:25:56,655 --> 00:25:58,790
to kind of preserve
this early signature.

637
00:25:58,790 --> 00:26:01,760
So even though the Martian rocks
are quite old,

638
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,527
they're ancient.

639
00:26:02,527 --> 00:26:04,095
They have a lot of similarities

640
00:26:04,095 --> 00:26:06,531
to what we're seeing here
on Earth. Cool.

641
00:26:06,531 --> 00:26:09,935
Now we have Annabel X on YouTube
who asks, what are you hoping

642
00:26:09,935 --> 00:26:11,069
to do with the data

643
00:26:11,069 --> 00:26:14,072
that you collect from,
you know, the moon or Mars?

644
00:26:14,306 --> 00:26:14,673
Yeah.

645
00:26:14,673 --> 00:26:18,910
So for me, I think it's kind of
guiding future exploration to

646
00:26:18,910 --> 00:26:22,447
and or kind of putting together
a reference frame for what

647
00:26:22,447 --> 00:26:24,649
the data coming back from
the rovers are.

648
00:26:24,649 --> 00:26:26,618
And so it's hard to interpret
the data

649
00:26:26,618 --> 00:26:28,053
without having
a complete picture.

650
00:26:28,053 --> 00:26:30,121
The rover can only drive so far
when I'm out there

651
00:26:30,121 --> 00:26:31,222
hiking in Iceland,

652
00:26:31,222 --> 00:26:32,857
we're going kilometers
and we're out there

653
00:26:32,857 --> 00:26:33,858
for eight days at a time,

654
00:26:33,858 --> 00:26:36,828
and we really are really
at a good pace.

655
00:26:36,828 --> 00:26:37,629
Rovers can't do that.

656
00:26:37,629 --> 00:26:40,632
They're a little more restricted
too, so we kind of provide

657
00:26:40,632 --> 00:26:41,833
that bigger picture,

658
00:26:41,833 --> 00:26:43,835
kind of broader
view of what's going on

659
00:26:43,835 --> 00:26:45,604
by placing this stuff
in a context.

660
00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:47,339
And then outside of that,

661
00:26:47,339 --> 00:26:49,040
we can kind of use
our knowledge base

662
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,276
to kind of say, like,
this was a good sampling spot.

663
00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:52,444
Maybe you should go over there.

664
00:26:52,444 --> 00:26:55,013
So like learning
where you might sample

665
00:26:55,013 --> 00:26:58,216
targets of interest are, 
definitely important.

666
00:26:58,216 --> 00:27:00,418
And then if you take that
a step further,

667
00:27:00,418 --> 00:27:02,721
kind of teaching astronauts
how to be sampling in the field

668
00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:05,223
when they go on to these
other planets or a moon,

669
00:27:05,223 --> 00:27:06,725
you're only dealing
with rocks up there.

670
00:27:06,725 --> 00:27:08,226
So the geologists are hopefully

671
00:27:08,226 --> 00:27:11,229
helping guide where you might go
and kind of interrogate.

672
00:27:11,496 --> 00:27:11,896
Cool.

673
00:27:11,896 --> 00:27:13,031
So it's like an assist,

674
00:27:13,031 --> 00:27:14,466
like you all
are working together

675
00:27:14,466 --> 00:27:17,469
and then you're kind of like
providing them the direction.

676
00:27:17,502 --> 00:27:18,503
Yeah. Our way.

677
00:27:18,503 --> 00:27:19,337
Some of that I think.

678
00:27:19,337 --> 00:27:20,572
Yeah. That's cool.

679
00:27:20,572 --> 00:27:22,641
All right. We have

680
00:27:23,875 --> 00:27:24,643
Jared.

681
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:25,276
Thank you.

682
00:27:25,276 --> 00:27:27,679
On Twitch who asks
what does a typical field

683
00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:28,613
survey look like?

684
00:27:28,613 --> 00:27:31,616
How much ground does it cover
and how much time?

685
00:27:32,017 --> 00:27:34,252
They're all different
with that expedition in Iceland

686
00:27:34,252 --> 00:27:35,253
and tip of the cap.

687
00:27:35,253 --> 00:27:36,921
To all my teammates
who are out there,

688
00:27:36,921 --> 00:27:38,523
it was really fun
being with all of them.

689
00:27:38,523 --> 00:27:40,892
But there were eight
different expeditions going on.

690
00:27:40,892 --> 00:27:43,528
You saw people scuba diving?
Yeah, at one time. Yeah.

691
00:27:43,528 --> 00:27:44,095
Their trips

692
00:27:44,095 --> 00:27:44,496
looked

693
00:27:44,496 --> 00:27:45,997
fundamentally different
than my trip,

694
00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:47,966
where I was just hiking
kilometers at a time.

695
00:27:47,966 --> 00:27:51,102
And, and so my expedition
kind of targeted

696
00:27:51,102 --> 00:27:53,104
something different.
We were hiking along this river.

697
00:27:53,104 --> 00:27:56,107
And so we were really looking
for these specific outcrops,

698
00:27:56,141 --> 00:27:59,044
whereas there was other teams
that were like,

699
00:27:59,044 --> 00:28:00,845
you heard from Emily
before looking for buried ice.

700
00:28:00,845 --> 00:28:02,681
So every expedition
is different.

701
00:28:02,681 --> 00:28:05,717
And even on those expeditions,
the science investigations on

702
00:28:05,717 --> 00:28:06,718
them are all different to.

703
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,088
And so I have a great follow up.

704
00:28:10,088 --> 00:28:13,792
We have Karolina
Sanchez on YouTube who asks,

705
00:28:13,792 --> 00:28:16,961
you know, if you were able to
get a direct sample from Mars,

706
00:28:17,328 --> 00:28:19,564
what kind of insight
with that provide,

707
00:28:19,564 --> 00:28:22,467
you know, what parameters
would you be interested in?

708
00:28:22,467 --> 00:28:23,334
Great question.

709
00:28:23,334 --> 00:28:25,470
That's exciting to think about.

710
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:28,473
And hopefully we get
those samples back one day.

711
00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:30,742
But I
look at the alteration minerals.

712
00:28:30,742 --> 00:28:32,143
And so that's things that form.

713
00:28:32,143 --> 00:28:34,713
So you have minerals
that form from the lava itself.

714
00:28:34,713 --> 00:28:36,881
But then as you weather them,
just like we

715
00:28:36,881 --> 00:28:39,117
whether here on Earth,
they change their composition.

716
00:28:39,117 --> 00:28:41,119
And those minerals
kind of tell me exactly what

717
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:43,254
the climate was,
how much water was involved.

718
00:28:43,254 --> 00:28:45,023
And so I can use all those

719
00:28:45,023 --> 00:28:48,059
as kind of unraveling
the history of that rock itself.

720
00:28:48,059 --> 00:28:48,760
And so

721
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,961
I think we talked about it
before,

722
00:28:49,961 --> 00:28:52,430
but every every rock has a story
to tell.

723
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:54,299
And that's, 
that's compelling to me.

724
00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:57,302
So I look forward
to kind of telling that story.

725
00:28:57,368 --> 00:28:58,703
And it's amazing to.

726
00:28:58,703 --> 00:29:00,905
What you were just talking about
is that you can read

727
00:29:00,905 --> 00:29:04,275
just different signatures
in a rock and know that, hey,

728
00:29:04,275 --> 00:29:06,478
it went downstream from a river

729
00:29:06,478 --> 00:29:08,813
or, you know, it was in a dry
location.

730
00:29:08,813 --> 00:29:10,882
Is that is that
what is that similar

731
00:29:10,882 --> 00:29:13,885
to kind of how our rovers are
are studying Mars right now?

732
00:29:13,885 --> 00:29:16,521
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm pretty nerdy about that.

733
00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:19,591
May maybe my dinner table talk
about what this mineral might

734
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:20,959
tell you or something like that.

735
00:29:20,959 --> 00:29:22,827
But yeah, it does
definitely tell us that.

736
00:29:22,827 --> 00:29:24,395
And so when the data comes back

737
00:29:24,395 --> 00:29:26,431
from the rovers
to that's exactly what we do.

738
00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:28,066
We meet as a whole group
and we discuss

739
00:29:28,066 --> 00:29:30,735
what's going on there and,
and kind of everybody's got,

740
00:29:30,735 --> 00:29:32,103
you know, their own
opinion on it.

741
00:29:32,103 --> 00:29:33,538
And it's nice to work
collectively

742
00:29:33,538 --> 00:29:36,775
as a team to kind of see what,
what, what fits in the end.

743
00:29:37,876 --> 00:29:40,512
So I have your
empress on YouTube who asks what

744
00:29:40,512 --> 00:29:44,649
skills or degrees does NASA
need most for future missions?

745
00:29:44,649 --> 00:29:47,519
And so maybe
you take this in the geology.

746
00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:48,553
Yeah, sure.

747
00:29:48,553 --> 00:29:51,389
I mean, like, we always need
to keep pushing the geosciences.

748
00:29:51,389 --> 00:29:52,957
Like I said, when you're
when you're up there,

749
00:29:52,957 --> 00:29:54,726
you're just dealing with rocks.

750
00:29:54,726 --> 00:29:57,228
And so we need to understand
the fundamentals of,

751
00:29:57,228 --> 00:30:00,231
of how those, those rocks
weather how they form today.

752
00:30:00,365 --> 00:30:02,367
What what's happening with them
in the future.

753
00:30:02,367 --> 00:30:04,169
Are there reservoirs
for important minerals

754
00:30:04,169 --> 00:30:05,436
that we're looking at
and stuff like that?

755
00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:06,905
So definitely geosciences.

756
00:30:06,905 --> 00:30:09,674
But then engineering
is obviously I mean,

757
00:30:09,674 --> 00:30:12,243
working with engineers on
the Rover teams are amazing too.

758
00:30:12,243 --> 00:30:16,181
So, I think those are two huge,
applications

759
00:30:16,181 --> 00:30:18,883
that we'll need in the future.
How did you even get into this?

760
00:30:18,883 --> 00:30:22,120
Becoming a sedimentary planetary
geologist?

761
00:30:22,754 --> 00:30:24,722
I grew up, just loving hike.

762
00:30:24,722 --> 00:30:26,424
I was right on the Hudson
River in New York,

763
00:30:26,424 --> 00:30:27,926
and I would go hiking daily,

764
00:30:27,926 --> 00:30:31,462
and, it's pretty funny, but
my sister told me at a young age

765
00:30:31,462 --> 00:30:33,498
that those rocks do have a story
to tell.

766
00:30:33,498 --> 00:30:34,933
I'm like, that stuck with me.

767
00:30:34,933 --> 00:30:36,768
I just use that example
a couple minutes ago.

768
00:30:36,768 --> 00:30:38,203
But that's
what got me into geology.

769
00:30:38,203 --> 00:30:39,404
I was like,
I want to know that story.

770
00:30:39,404 --> 00:30:40,538
I'm going to figure that out.

771
00:30:40,538 --> 00:30:43,208
And I kind of
just went down this pathway

772
00:30:43,208 --> 00:30:44,142
and loved it ever since.

773
00:30:44,142 --> 00:30:47,212
So I'm definitely lucky
to have the career that I do

774
00:30:47,212 --> 00:30:49,047
and lucky
to be doing it for NASA.

775
00:30:49,047 --> 00:30:50,415
Well, shout out to your sister.

776
00:30:50,415 --> 00:30:51,850
You know, like

777
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,585
like getting you
starting from rocks

778
00:30:53,585 --> 00:30:55,687
to all the way,
like studying rocks on Mars.

779
00:30:55,687 --> 00:30:57,188
That's so cool. Yeah.

780
00:30:57,188 --> 00:31:01,092
Our next question is from

781
00:31:02,627 --> 00:31:04,462
okay, cap Sam one on Twitch.

782
00:31:04,462 --> 00:31:06,264
Who asks, Does Mars?

783
00:31:06,264 --> 00:31:09,267
Does Mars have

784
00:31:09,267 --> 00:31:13,171
alluvial fan debris fields
like we do here on Earth?

785
00:31:13,171 --> 00:31:16,140
Have we compared their behaviors
to ours?

786
00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:20,678
Yeah, I think they may, 
and meant to say alluvial fans.

787
00:31:20,678 --> 00:31:24,215
And that's what kind of happens
when you have just like streams

788
00:31:24,215 --> 00:31:25,283
that are coming down
the mountain.

789
00:31:25,283 --> 00:31:27,252
It kind of quickly deposits
everything quickly.

790
00:31:27,252 --> 00:31:28,653
And it makes this
like fan shape.

791
00:31:28,653 --> 00:31:29,587
And so it's pretty

792
00:31:29,587 --> 00:31:32,056
I mean, it's gorgeous to look at
and they do.

793
00:31:32,056 --> 00:31:33,057
And so that's a good question.

794
00:31:33,057 --> 00:31:33,658
And like that's

795
00:31:33,658 --> 00:31:36,661
why we went to Gale crater
where the curiosity rover is

796
00:31:36,661 --> 00:31:38,963
because it had this
alluvial fan.

797
00:31:38,963 --> 00:31:41,466
And it's
kind of a similar different

798
00:31:41,466 --> 00:31:42,533
depositional environment.

799
00:31:42,533 --> 00:31:44,269
But deltas

800
00:31:44,269 --> 00:31:47,272
where the, perseverance rover
is, is right on the delta too.

801
00:31:47,272 --> 00:31:50,275
So that's kind of when a stream
goes into a body of water, too.

802
00:31:50,275 --> 00:31:51,576
It makes a fan shape as well,

803
00:31:51,576 --> 00:31:53,111
but just a different kind
of shape overall.

804
00:31:53,111 --> 00:31:54,712
So we definitely target

805
00:31:54,712 --> 00:31:58,950
these environments that we think
were habitable or definitely

806
00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:01,953
had water active in it
at some point in time.

807
00:32:02,153 --> 00:32:03,087
Cool.

808
00:32:03,087 --> 00:32:06,090
Now, Emily F on YouTube asks,
what would you say

809
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:08,893
is the most exciting thing
that you've studied in the field

810
00:32:08,893 --> 00:32:12,430
that was later utilized by an
astronaut or other researchers?

811
00:32:13,531 --> 00:32:16,301
Well, I hope my stuff
is used by an astronaut one day,

812
00:32:16,301 --> 00:32:17,568
but I can't say that yet.

813
00:32:17,568 --> 00:32:20,571
But I think
we we've been focusing on

814
00:32:20,571 --> 00:32:23,908
a lot recently where
ground water goes into a lake.

815
00:32:23,908 --> 00:32:25,643
And so you kind of don't
see we call it

816
00:32:25,643 --> 00:32:26,844
this invisible component.

817
00:32:26,844 --> 00:32:28,846
It's kind of going
through the sand

818
00:32:28,846 --> 00:32:31,249
and making its way down
into the lake itself.

819
00:32:31,249 --> 00:32:33,584
And that mixes
with the lake water, too.

820
00:32:33,584 --> 00:32:36,254
And when that happens,
there's these really unique

821
00:32:36,254 --> 00:32:37,655
chemical reactions that go on

822
00:32:37,655 --> 00:32:40,658
and change the mineralogy
of the rocks themselves.

823
00:32:40,925 --> 00:32:42,093
And we can uncover that

824
00:32:42,093 --> 00:32:43,761
with the things that
we've been doing here on Earth.

825
00:32:43,761 --> 00:32:44,963
And so I've applied that,

826
00:32:44,963 --> 00:32:46,798
and other researchers
have applied that

827
00:32:46,798 --> 00:32:49,033
to kind of some of the rubber
results to be like,

828
00:32:49,033 --> 00:32:50,435
maybe this happened on Mars too.

829
00:32:50,435 --> 00:32:52,971
And so we're trying to dig into
that a little more to wow,

830
00:32:52,971 --> 00:32:53,871
and really just build this

831
00:32:53,871 --> 00:32:57,141
picture of like Mars is wet,
watery past.

832
00:32:57,141 --> 00:33:00,578
And and how that relates,
I guess, right to Earth

833
00:33:00,578 --> 00:33:02,413
eventually. Yeah, absolutely.

834
00:33:02,413 --> 00:33:04,015
So I have a fun question.

835
00:33:04,015 --> 00:33:06,918
It's McFlurry Mac on Twitch asks

836
00:33:06,918 --> 00:33:09,554
if you could add one instrument
to the next rover

837
00:33:09,554 --> 00:33:11,422
that would make your life
easier.

838
00:33:11,422 --> 00:33:12,724
What would it be?

839
00:33:12,724 --> 00:33:16,194
What is going to be a big
proponent for an x ray diffract

840
00:33:16,194 --> 00:33:17,362
Hummer Z?

841
00:33:17,362 --> 00:33:19,630
And wow,
that's just really so sci fi.

842
00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:20,965
Yeah, it definitely does.

843
00:33:20,965 --> 00:33:22,834
But that's what tells us
about the minerals.

844
00:33:22,834 --> 00:33:23,868
And there is one right now,

845
00:33:23,868 --> 00:33:26,004
the Chemin instrument
on the curiosity rover.

846
00:33:26,004 --> 00:33:27,405
I think it's just remarkable

847
00:33:27,405 --> 00:33:29,107
the data that keeps coming back
from that.

848
00:33:29,107 --> 00:33:31,042
It's a gift that keeps giving.

849
00:33:31,042 --> 00:33:32,043
And we learn so much from.

850
00:33:32,043 --> 00:33:34,445
And I think the mineralogy is
super important to understand.

851
00:33:34,445 --> 00:33:35,613
It's very fundamental

852
00:33:35,613 --> 00:33:37,648
to kind of knowing the history
of the rock itself,

853
00:33:37,648 --> 00:33:39,217
putting all those pieces
together.

854
00:33:39,217 --> 00:33:41,285
And so I'm definitely
a big advocate for

855
00:33:41,285 --> 00:33:42,153
for those instruments.

856
00:33:42,153 --> 00:33:44,689
That would be my number
one. Cool.

857
00:33:44,689 --> 00:33:48,192
So we have Ryan Quinn on YouTube
who asks, how will Curtin

858
00:33:48,192 --> 00:33:52,130
current research on Earth's
frozen water and sediments

859
00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:55,133
guide the design
for future missions to the

860
00:33:55,133 --> 00:33:56,501
Mars, or maybe even Europa?

861
00:33:57,835 --> 00:34:00,138
I think
it may help us understand

862
00:34:00,138 --> 00:34:02,640
what kind of instruments
we need, to unravel

863
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,342
what the science is telling us
about there, too,

864
00:34:04,342 --> 00:34:06,377
but also kind of helps us
with engineering.

865
00:34:06,377 --> 00:34:08,246
Like how do we
how do we sample those things

866
00:34:08,246 --> 00:34:10,615
in these cold environments
to, Emily,

867
00:34:10,615 --> 00:34:12,417
you saw in her video
the drill before.

868
00:34:12,417 --> 00:34:14,085
How do we dig down
into these two?

869
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:15,953
It's not as easy as it looks.

870
00:34:15,953 --> 00:34:19,023
Two and,
I've been out in Iceland.

871
00:34:19,023 --> 00:34:21,692
Two with drills
where we've failed.

872
00:34:21,692 --> 00:34:23,194
Do they break or. Yeah.

873
00:34:23,194 --> 00:34:24,395
Yeah, that's the thing.

874
00:34:24,395 --> 00:34:26,197
With fieldwork, you always got
to be able to adapt.

875
00:34:26,197 --> 00:34:28,900
Adversity or,
you're in trouble.

876
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:32,703
So, Yeah, these drills, they,
they break occasionally,

877
00:34:32,703 --> 00:34:36,274
and you just need to kind of
find techniques that work.

878
00:34:36,274 --> 00:34:37,942
You need to be able
to roll with it

879
00:34:37,942 --> 00:34:39,243
and figure it out real time.

880
00:34:39,243 --> 00:34:41,045
So I think these hardships
in the field

881
00:34:41,045 --> 00:34:42,313
kind of guide us to how

882
00:34:42,313 --> 00:34:45,316
we might be able to do future
missions and stuff like that.

883
00:34:45,550 --> 00:34:45,750
Well,

884
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:47,418
I think that's such a cool
concept too,

885
00:34:47,418 --> 00:34:47,985
because again,

886
00:34:47,985 --> 00:34:50,221
if we're preparing
for our future, explorers

887
00:34:50,221 --> 00:34:51,155
on the moon and Mars

888
00:34:51,155 --> 00:34:54,258
are not going to be able
to just run back down to a lab

889
00:34:54,258 --> 00:34:55,359
and get a new instrument.

890
00:34:55,359 --> 00:34:57,095
And so do
you have a time in the field

891
00:34:57,095 --> 00:35:00,198
where you've maybe had to pivot
and your drill breaks?

892
00:35:00,198 --> 00:35:01,866
What do you do next?

893
00:35:01,866 --> 00:35:02,867
You just got it.

894
00:35:02,867 --> 00:35:03,734
You got to roll with it.

895
00:35:03,734 --> 00:35:06,504
And if you don't, then
your mission's going to fail.

896
00:35:06,504 --> 00:35:10,475
So for instance, a couple field
trips ago, we had, this pump

897
00:35:10,475 --> 00:35:13,277
that got wet and instead of
just rolling up shop

898
00:35:13,277 --> 00:35:14,946
and coming home
because we were out there

899
00:35:14,946 --> 00:35:17,582
for two weeks,
we developed a hand-crank

900
00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:19,150
for getting the water
out of the ground.

901
00:35:19,150 --> 00:35:20,451
And then we didn't know

902
00:35:20,451 --> 00:35:22,353
was actually going to happen
in that fashion.

903
00:35:22,353 --> 00:35:23,287
And so like,

904
00:35:23,287 --> 00:35:24,789
you have to learn real time
and that's

905
00:35:24,789 --> 00:35:28,025
where your teammates come into
to play and stuff like that too.

906
00:35:28,025 --> 00:35:30,094
And it's just like, you
definitely need the support out

907
00:35:30,094 --> 00:35:32,230
there to,
to be thinking as a, as a unit.

908
00:35:33,598 --> 00:35:33,898
I have a

909
00:35:33,898 --> 00:35:36,934
question from Karolina
Sanchez on YouTube who asks,

910
00:35:36,934 --> 00:35:38,269
what kind of instruments

911
00:35:38,269 --> 00:35:41,272
did you use to study
these as Icelandic rocks,

912
00:35:41,472 --> 00:35:44,108
and what information
do they tell us?

913
00:35:44,108 --> 00:35:46,611
So we did use and Zadeh, like

914
00:35:46,611 --> 00:35:49,981
I said before, which is yeah,
expertise, X-ray diffraction.

915
00:35:49,981 --> 00:35:50,615
Yeah.

916
00:35:50,615 --> 00:35:53,584
It just yeah,
it just shoots X-rays at it.

917
00:35:53,584 --> 00:35:55,119
It's like
if you were getting your,

918
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,255
your arm or your teeth
X-ray to the doctors,

919
00:35:57,255 --> 00:35:59,056
but it tells me the minerals
instead of like

920
00:35:59,056 --> 00:36:00,725
show me where you're right. Wow.

921
00:36:00,725 --> 00:36:01,592
So it tells me the matter.

922
00:36:01,592 --> 00:36:02,460
So we did have that.

923
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:04,795
Like this one was like an almost
suitcase and it was portable.

924
00:36:04,795 --> 00:36:05,997
So we took it out into the field

925
00:36:05,997 --> 00:36:08,533
and we opened it up and analyzed
the samples there.

926
00:36:08,533 --> 00:36:10,535
So that told us the minerals
that we were looking for

927
00:36:10,535 --> 00:36:13,104
and that actually helped guide
what we were looking for.

928
00:36:13,104 --> 00:36:16,874
But we also various teams
had, handheld instrumentation

929
00:36:16,874 --> 00:36:18,576
that tells you
the elements that are in there.

930
00:36:18,576 --> 00:36:21,179
And so instead of the minerals,
it's telling me the elements.

931
00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:25,650
Other teams are, looking at it,
you heard mi DPR

932
00:36:25,683 --> 00:36:28,186
before, trying to locate ice
and stuff like that.

933
00:36:28,186 --> 00:36:32,623
So there's a bunch of different
pieces in different instruments

934
00:36:32,623 --> 00:36:34,158
that help you paint

935
00:36:34,158 --> 00:36:36,994
that bigger picture 
of what the geological history

936
00:36:36,994 --> 00:36:38,829
is going on in that environment.

937
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:40,765
And so the instruments
that your team was using in

938
00:36:40,765 --> 00:36:42,667
the field
are these types of instruments

939
00:36:42,667 --> 00:36:44,835
that we could see
future explorers using.

940
00:36:44,835 --> 00:36:45,903
Yeah, absolutely.

941
00:36:45,903 --> 00:36:48,472
Some of them,
we specifically target

942
00:36:48,472 --> 00:36:50,741
some of them
because they are currently

943
00:36:50,741 --> 00:36:53,744
or akin to what might be on
the rovers themselves.

944
00:36:54,045 --> 00:36:56,314
But there's definitely,
you know, colleagues

945
00:36:56,314 --> 00:36:57,281
who, who talk about

946
00:36:57,281 --> 00:37:00,284
using these various instruments
for astronaut exploration.

947
00:37:00,284 --> 00:37:01,085
And there's a big that's

948
00:37:01,085 --> 00:37:02,753
a big component of our research
to us

949
00:37:02,753 --> 00:37:05,223
to see how we might be able
to implement that in the field.

950
00:37:05,223 --> 00:37:07,792
How does that guide
what you're going to be sample?

951
00:37:07,792 --> 00:37:09,760
Are you looking for
just that shiny rock,

952
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,429
or are you looking for

953
00:37:11,429 --> 00:37:12,730
a particular set of elements

954
00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:14,899
or minerals
or something like that?

955
00:37:14,899 --> 00:37:17,902
And so I have time
for one more question.

956
00:37:18,669 --> 00:37:20,171
I have a follow up
from Ryan Quinn,

957
00:37:20,171 --> 00:37:22,607
who wants to know
how does studying rare

958
00:37:22,607 --> 00:37:23,908
rock types on earth,

959
00:37:23,908 --> 00:37:26,744
like the volcanic basalts
or impact craters,

960
00:37:26,744 --> 00:37:29,313
help us interpret
the samples that we collect

961
00:37:29,313 --> 00:37:33,217
from other planets
or objects in our solar system.

962
00:37:33,884 --> 00:37:35,586
Studying
the igneous rocks themselves.

963
00:37:35,586 --> 00:37:37,588
So those volcanic rocks
are going to tell you,

964
00:37:37,588 --> 00:37:40,625
like how quickly
that magma cooled or how quickly

965
00:37:40,625 --> 00:37:43,761
or where it cooled
in the system, like in proximity

966
00:37:43,761 --> 00:37:44,795
to the surface.

967
00:37:44,795 --> 00:37:47,098
But then for me, I'm
a sedimentary guy.

968
00:37:47,098 --> 00:37:48,466
So that means that
we take those rocks

969
00:37:48,466 --> 00:37:50,468
and beat them up
and we move downstream.

970
00:37:50,468 --> 00:37:51,269
And so like

971
00:37:51,269 --> 00:37:52,169
I can tell you

972
00:37:52,169 --> 00:37:54,705
how far it was moved downstream,
I can tell you

973
00:37:54,705 --> 00:37:56,507
the composition of the water.

974
00:37:56,507 --> 00:37:59,677
Was it really salty water
or was it kind of very neutral,

975
00:37:59,677 --> 00:38:02,246
like like water or something
like that? Fresh water.

976
00:38:02,246 --> 00:38:04,915
I can tell you the climate
that it was forming in.

977
00:38:04,915 --> 00:38:06,651
I can tell you. Incredible.
Yeah.

978
00:38:06,651 --> 00:38:08,286
So there's, there's,

979
00:38:08,286 --> 00:38:09,754
there's a lot
that you can unravel

980
00:38:09,754 --> 00:38:11,422
just by seeing
the composition of that.

981
00:38:11,422 --> 00:38:13,057
So that that's the fun part.

982
00:38:13,057 --> 00:38:15,660
And just by reading a rock,
which is so cool.

983
00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:16,060
Yeah.

984
00:38:16,060 --> 00:38:17,728
Mike, thank you for being here
with us.

985
00:38:17,728 --> 00:38:20,665
Cannot wait to see
what expedition you're on next.

986
00:38:20,665 --> 00:38:23,134
Appreciate it.
Thank you for having me. Yeah.

987
00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:26,170
Now on Earth,
water plays an important role

988
00:38:26,170 --> 00:38:27,505
in the origin of life.

989
00:38:27,505 --> 00:38:28,739
And our planet is not the

990
00:38:28,739 --> 00:38:31,742
only place in our solar system
that is home to water.

991
00:38:31,842 --> 00:38:34,345
Jupiter's
moon Europa and Saturn's moon

992
00:38:34,345 --> 00:38:38,282
Enceladus have evidence of vast
ocean water, a vast

993
00:38:38,282 --> 00:38:39,517
underwater oceans

994
00:38:39,517 --> 00:38:42,420
that could be excellent places
to search for life.

995
00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:45,122
Now, as you'll probably guess
from this show,

996
00:38:45,122 --> 00:38:47,892
Iceland is also a great place
to work towards

997
00:38:47,892 --> 00:38:51,329
understanding these watery
worlds right here at home.

998
00:38:53,764 --> 00:38:54,632
I love

999
00:38:54,632 --> 00:38:56,767
exploration,
being a part of NASA,

1000
00:38:56,767 --> 00:38:58,969
and being a part of the work
that we do.

1001
00:38:58,969 --> 00:39:00,271
Coming to these environments

1002
00:39:00,271 --> 00:39:03,274
to understand how Earth
can inform us about these really

1003
00:39:03,274 --> 00:39:06,277
distant places,
it's really satisfying.

1004
00:39:07,345 --> 00:39:10,448
We are interested in the CO2
that is bubbling up

1005
00:39:10,448 --> 00:39:11,949
from the vents
in the center of the lake.

1006
00:39:11,949 --> 00:39:15,186
Iceland is a place
where you can actually access

1007
00:39:15,486 --> 00:39:17,288
the carbon
coming from the earth.

1008
00:39:17,288 --> 00:39:20,024
And when we go to
other planetary systems,

1009
00:39:20,024 --> 00:39:21,659
one of the ways to understand

1010
00:39:21,659 --> 00:39:24,028
whether life could ever be
present there

1011
00:39:24,028 --> 00:39:26,197
or even is present
there, is understanding

1012
00:39:26,197 --> 00:39:28,466
the cycling of carbon
in systems.

1013
00:39:28,466 --> 00:39:29,633
This is a rift zone.

1014
00:39:29,633 --> 00:39:30,434
This is actually where

1015
00:39:30,434 --> 00:39:33,270
the continental plates
are breaking apart

1016
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:36,040
and you have magnetic fluids
coming up through that.

1017
00:39:39,143 --> 00:39:40,511
There's
quite a bit of wind today.

1018
00:39:40,511 --> 00:39:43,114
We are going to wade out
to a vent.

1019
00:39:43,114 --> 00:39:44,782
We're going to be walking
through the water,

1020
00:39:44,782 --> 00:39:46,283
and we're going to be
collecting samples

1021
00:39:46,283 --> 00:39:47,785
that we'll actually have a probe

1022
00:39:47,785 --> 00:39:49,854
that allows us
to produce a transect

1023
00:39:49,854 --> 00:39:51,889
so we can walk out to it
and say, oh,

1024
00:39:51,889 --> 00:39:53,958
how's the environment changing
as we approach

1025
00:39:53,958 --> 00:39:56,961
this particular vent?

1026
00:39:58,596 --> 00:39:59,830
So I'll be

1027
00:39:59,830 --> 00:40:02,833
performing scuba
diving to collect the gases

1028
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,003
in those samples.

1029
00:40:07,772 --> 00:40:09,907
We'll do that
probably in in two ways, one of

1030
00:40:09,907 --> 00:40:11,642
which is that
there's so much gas

1031
00:40:11,642 --> 00:40:13,244
that we could actually turn over

1032
00:40:13,244 --> 00:40:16,247
a bottle underwater
and just let it fill.

1033
00:40:17,314 --> 00:40:19,884
We're
also collecting some sediments

1034
00:40:19,884 --> 00:40:21,285
just so that we understand,
like,

1035
00:40:21,285 --> 00:40:23,888
what is the actual carbon
that's already in these rocks?

1036
00:40:26,857 --> 00:40:27,591
Feel this core.

1037
00:40:27,591 --> 00:40:30,194
It's actually
like really nice and warm.

1038
00:40:30,194 --> 00:40:32,163
Oh, isn't that cool?

1039
00:40:32,163 --> 00:40:35,166
See, like the bubbles 
forming in here.

1040
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:36,233
Like how cool.

1041
00:40:36,233 --> 00:40:37,468
Yeah. Look.

1042
00:40:37,468 --> 00:40:40,037
It's awesome. It's a gas cooler.

1043
00:40:40,037 --> 00:40:40,471
So there's a

1044
00:40:40,471 --> 00:40:44,208
hypothesis that underneath
the ice shell of Enceladus,

1045
00:40:44,542 --> 00:40:47,978
that there's this organic
rich layer and of the gases

1046
00:40:47,978 --> 00:40:50,815
that are being ejected
out of the the vents,

1047
00:40:50,815 --> 00:40:53,551
they end up forming like this
sort of bubble layer.

1048
00:40:53,551 --> 00:40:57,655
So I'm, I'm kind of like really,
really excited about this.

1049
00:40:58,022 --> 00:41:00,324
You wouldn't look at that
and say that's like, sure.

1050
00:41:00,324 --> 00:41:02,693
But you would look at that
and you'd say there's chemistry

1051
00:41:02,693 --> 00:41:05,696
that is similar
to what we think.

1052
00:41:06,564 --> 00:41:08,165
Started life on.

1053
00:41:08,165 --> 00:41:10,067
So cool.

1054
00:41:10,067 --> 00:41:12,670
It may not quite
be going to those other worlds,

1055
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:14,705
but we're going to
a natural system,

1056
00:41:14,705 --> 00:41:16,040
an environment where

1057
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,143
you're just focused on the work,
focused on what you're doing.

1058
00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:22,613
There's just so many things
that you could answer

1059
00:41:22,813 --> 00:41:26,550
about the world around you,
and I am just so curious

1060
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:27,651
about all of those things.

1061
00:41:34,625 --> 00:41:35,392
I'm joined now

1062
00:41:35,392 --> 00:41:38,395
by Bethany Theiling,
a planetary geochemist.

1063
00:41:38,529 --> 00:41:40,030
Bethany,
thanks for being here with us.

1064
00:41:40,030 --> 00:41:41,298
Thank you so much for having me.

1065
00:41:41,298 --> 00:41:42,700
So we just saw you, you know,

1066
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:45,603
wading through a lake, scuba
diving under the water.

1067
00:41:45,603 --> 00:41:47,271
Can you tell us
what were you doing?

1068
00:41:47,271 --> 00:41:48,939
What were you trying to find
out? Yeah.

1069
00:41:48,939 --> 00:41:50,674
So we had a lot of things
that we were trying

1070
00:41:50,674 --> 00:41:53,344
to accomplish
while we were there. We.

1071
00:41:53,344 --> 00:41:54,044
So first of all,

1072
00:41:54,044 --> 00:41:54,311
I mean,

1073
00:41:54,311 --> 00:41:56,247
we were doing
a lot of work from the boat,

1074
00:41:56,247 --> 00:41:58,048
so we actually had a boat out
on the surface,

1075
00:41:58,048 --> 00:41:59,149
and we were trying to

1076
00:41:59,149 --> 00:42:01,986
get samples from various depths
in the lake.

1077
00:42:01,986 --> 00:42:05,356
And this allows us to go I think
we went up to like 120ft.

1078
00:42:05,756 --> 00:42:07,725
Oh, there's really,
really deep samples

1079
00:42:07,725 --> 00:42:09,727
that I wasn't going to go scuba
diving through.

1080
00:42:09,727 --> 00:42:10,794
I was like, that's impressive.

1081
00:42:10,794 --> 00:42:13,130
Maybe not open water,
maybe. Yeah.

1082
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:15,699
But yeah, so we
we also collected

1083
00:42:15,699 --> 00:42:17,601
a bunch of samples
through scuba diving.

1084
00:42:17,601 --> 00:42:20,404
And all of these are trying
to get at this question of where

1085
00:42:20,404 --> 00:42:23,674
is carbon coming from and
where is it going in the system.

1086
00:42:23,908 --> 00:42:25,743
And all of that tells us about,

1087
00:42:25,743 --> 00:42:29,313
you know, how other organisms
might be able to use carbon.

1088
00:42:29,313 --> 00:42:32,616
So could we have life
on another planet, or a moon?

1089
00:42:32,917 --> 00:42:34,618
And then
how could they use that carbon?

1090
00:42:34,618 --> 00:42:37,321
Or how could it become available
for life?

1091
00:42:37,321 --> 00:42:40,758
So how does the science on earth
really influence

1092
00:42:40,758 --> 00:42:43,994
how we're looking for
habitable environments?

1093
00:42:43,994 --> 00:42:46,397
And in other places
beyond Earth? Yeah.

1094
00:42:46,397 --> 00:42:49,400
So, I mean, this system
in Iceland was so perfect

1095
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,536
because it's right along this
kind of, this rift zone.

1096
00:42:52,536 --> 00:42:53,571
So you basically have kind of

1097
00:42:53,571 --> 00:42:55,873
a, a fissure
in the Earth's crust

1098
00:42:55,873 --> 00:42:57,541
and it's sort of
opening up there.

1099
00:42:57,541 --> 00:42:58,642
And you get this like high,

1100
00:42:58,642 --> 00:43:00,444
these hydrothermal fluids
coming up.

1101
00:43:00,444 --> 00:43:01,745
So this is like hot water

1102
00:43:01,745 --> 00:43:04,048
that's going through a rock
and it's altering the rock.

1103
00:43:04,048 --> 00:43:07,051
And so this is not just
a volcanic environment.

1104
00:43:07,051 --> 00:43:09,920
It's also a place
where you're actively changing.

1105
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:10,921
And that's a great video.

1106
00:43:10,921 --> 00:43:12,990
So you're actually changing the,

1107
00:43:12,990 --> 00:43:15,125
the subsurface of that,
that floor.

1108
00:43:15,125 --> 00:43:18,095
So you're creating new minerals
and you're creating,

1109
00:43:18,095 --> 00:43:21,098
new kinds of organic molecules
and all of those

1110
00:43:21,098 --> 00:43:24,902
kinds of things could be, food
sources for other life forms.

1111
00:43:25,336 --> 00:43:29,073
And do we think these kind of,
you know, vents

1112
00:43:29,073 --> 00:43:30,541
on the, on the floor of lakes

1113
00:43:30,541 --> 00:43:34,044
or maybe oceans are exist
other places we actually do.

1114
00:43:34,311 --> 00:43:37,214
So we have a lot of pretty
strong evidence to suggest that

1115
00:43:37,214 --> 00:43:39,483
this is happening
actively on Enceladus.

1116
00:43:39,483 --> 00:43:41,619
The Enceladus
is a moon of Saturn.

1117
00:43:41,619 --> 00:43:45,623
And we were fortunate enough
to have the Cassini spacecraft

1118
00:43:46,023 --> 00:43:48,592
ended up not only identifying
that they were there,

1119
00:43:48,592 --> 00:43:50,127
they actually flew
through the plumes.

1120
00:43:50,127 --> 00:43:51,996
So we were able to kind of
redirect it

1121
00:43:51,996 --> 00:43:53,263
so that it went
through the plumes.

1122
00:43:53,263 --> 00:43:54,531
So these are going,

1123
00:43:54,531 --> 00:43:55,866
you know, upwards of a kilometer

1124
00:43:55,866 --> 00:43:58,469
or more out into the solar
system. It's incredible. Wow.

1125
00:43:58,469 --> 00:43:59,370
Yeah.

1126
00:43:59,370 --> 00:44:03,574
So these are geysers of
of water and salts and organics.

1127
00:44:03,807 --> 00:44:06,610
But but one of the incredible
discoveries we made

1128
00:44:06,610 --> 00:44:09,613
is that there's actually
not only organic molecules,

1129
00:44:09,647 --> 00:44:13,751
but also methane, carbon
dioxide and hydrogen

1130
00:44:14,118 --> 00:44:15,986
and all of those components
together

1131
00:44:15,986 --> 00:44:19,123
means that there's enough
chemical energy to support life.

1132
00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:22,326
We also found silica particles,
and that doesn't

1133
00:44:22,326 --> 00:44:23,360
sound like it's very exciting.

1134
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,863
So this is like kind of like
a quartz crystal, right.

1135
00:44:25,863 --> 00:44:27,331
So we found like little tiny

1136
00:44:27,331 --> 00:44:29,433
bits of these
little silica particles.

1137
00:44:29,433 --> 00:44:32,102
But what that means
is that there's probably things

1138
00:44:32,102 --> 00:44:34,505
that are altering
the subsurface at depth

1139
00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:36,740
and then injecting it
through these vents

1140
00:44:36,740 --> 00:44:39,043
from the surface
upwards through the surface.

1141
00:44:39,043 --> 00:44:41,311
So we're actually able
to see that from space.

1142
00:44:41,311 --> 00:44:42,079
And that was

1143
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,082
an incredible discovery like
all of those things together.

1144
00:44:45,416 --> 00:44:45,983
Oh my goodness.

1145
00:44:45,983 --> 00:44:50,020
So on Earth
these these vent environments,

1146
00:44:50,354 --> 00:44:53,557
are they known to harbor
life or again help life.

1147
00:44:53,557 --> 00:44:56,493
Is that why we're so excited
to be seeing these things from.

1148
00:44:56,493 --> 00:44:57,828
Yeah that's all it is. Yeah.

1149
00:44:57,828 --> 00:44:59,797
So some of the

1150
00:44:59,797 --> 00:45:01,999
there are several hypotheses
about one of the prevailing

1151
00:45:01,999 --> 00:45:03,333
hypotheses is that,

1152
00:45:03,333 --> 00:45:07,137
you know, these are the kinds of
areas on Earth that could have

1153
00:45:07,938 --> 00:45:09,673
had the rise of life.

1154
00:45:09,673 --> 00:45:10,274
Right? So

1155
00:45:10,274 --> 00:45:14,178
there's enough chemical energy
and there's enough changes.

1156
00:45:14,178 --> 00:45:16,413
So basically
we're looking for gradients.

1157
00:45:16,413 --> 00:45:19,249
So this is where you know,
the chemistry changes from here

1158
00:45:19,249 --> 00:45:21,351
to here or the temperature
changes from here to here.

1159
00:45:21,351 --> 00:45:23,854
So you want to have something
that you want to change.

1160
00:45:23,854 --> 00:45:26,256
And what happens across
that change means that

1161
00:45:26,256 --> 00:45:29,727
you can actually move energy
from one place to another.

1162
00:45:30,027 --> 00:45:32,029
So we think that
this is the kind of,

1163
00:45:32,029 --> 00:45:35,566
environment
that could have resulted in the

1164
00:45:35,566 --> 00:45:39,403
formation of life on Earth,
in ancient Earth's history.

1165
00:45:39,403 --> 00:45:39,803
Yeah.

1166
00:45:39,803 --> 00:45:40,170
And now

1167
00:45:40,170 --> 00:45:43,974
we're seeing little signs, 
little signs on another world.

1168
00:45:44,074 --> 00:45:45,275
That's amazing.

1169
00:45:45,275 --> 00:45:46,677
Now, I have one more question,

1170
00:45:46,677 --> 00:45:49,680
but I want to remind our viewers
that might just be tuning in.

1171
00:45:49,747 --> 00:45:52,983
Submit your questions
for Bethany about ocean worlds

1172
00:45:52,983 --> 00:45:54,952
and hydrothermal vents
and places

1173
00:45:54,952 --> 00:45:57,321
where, you know,
we could be searching for life

1174
00:45:57,321 --> 00:45:59,189
by dropping them
in the comments.

1175
00:45:59,189 --> 00:46:00,190
Wherever you're watching,

1176
00:46:00,190 --> 00:46:03,360
or by using hashtag
ask NASA on social media.

1177
00:46:04,027 --> 00:46:05,496
Now, Bethany,
while we wait for folks

1178
00:46:05,496 --> 00:46:08,232
to drop their questions
in, I wanted to ask, you know,

1179
00:46:08,232 --> 00:46:11,168
how did you even get into this
line of work yet?

1180
00:46:11,168 --> 00:46:14,171
So I, similar to Emily, I have,
like, a really weird path.

1181
00:46:14,471 --> 00:46:16,206
But this work specifically.

1182
00:46:16,206 --> 00:46:18,375
So going to Iceland
and doing things,

1183
00:46:18,375 --> 00:46:20,577
related to ocean worlds
and underwater.

1184
00:46:20,577 --> 00:46:22,980
I grew up in Florida, so I'm.

1185
00:46:22,980 --> 00:46:25,215
I'm central Florida girl.

1186
00:46:25,215 --> 00:46:28,719
And I grew up scuba diving
and free diving and snorkeling

1187
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,487
with my dad in the springs.

1188
00:46:30,487 --> 00:46:34,158
And it was just this incredible
experience where we would,

1189
00:46:34,591 --> 00:46:36,493
you know, you take a breath
if you're free diving

1190
00:46:36,493 --> 00:46:38,195
and you,
you dive under the water

1191
00:46:38,195 --> 00:46:40,430
and the world
just sort of falls away,

1192
00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:41,598
and then you,

1193
00:46:41,598 --> 00:46:44,434
you kind of look out
and you just see

1194
00:46:44,434 --> 00:46:47,004
there's just this totally
different world under there.

1195
00:46:47,004 --> 00:46:48,338
Yeah, there really is.

1196
00:46:48,338 --> 00:46:50,674
And and it's just
it is breathtaking.

1197
00:46:50,674 --> 00:46:52,910
I mean, you have one breath,
right? Yeah.

1198
00:46:52,910 --> 00:46:54,278
But it is breathtaking.

1199
00:46:54,278 --> 00:46:58,115
And and I just remember this
profound feeling of, of wow.

1200
00:46:58,348 --> 00:47:00,317
How did this even come to be.

1201
00:47:00,317 --> 00:47:04,288
And, and I really carry a lot
of that with me anywhere I go.

1202
00:47:04,288 --> 00:47:04,655
So and,

1203
00:47:04,655 --> 00:47:06,290
you know,
whether I'm in a lava tube

1204
00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:08,959
or whether I'm doing, you know,
sedimentary geology or,

1205
00:47:08,959 --> 00:47:10,828
or I'm under the water,
I'm in a boat.

1206
00:47:10,828 --> 00:47:13,597
Every experience
I think you there's just this,

1207
00:47:13,597 --> 00:47:15,232
there's this opportunity

1208
00:47:15,232 --> 00:47:18,235
to look out and say, wow,
how did this happen?

1209
00:47:18,302 --> 00:47:21,305
And so that's that's kind of how
I became a scientist.

1210
00:47:21,338 --> 00:47:22,372
That's cool too.

1211
00:47:22,372 --> 00:47:23,140
And I mean,

1212
00:47:23,140 --> 00:47:24,975
it's like being able to now
apply

1213
00:47:24,975 --> 00:47:27,644
that to other worlds
is just incredible.

1214
00:47:27,644 --> 00:47:29,513
It is. So let's get to
some of these.

1215
00:47:29,513 --> 00:47:32,516
Ask NASA questions I have

1216
00:47:32,516 --> 00:47:35,786
I had a great question
from Dreams on Twitch.

1217
00:47:35,986 --> 00:47:38,889
Who asks what happens
if you don't find what you're

1218
00:47:38,889 --> 00:47:41,458
looking for in the field?
You know you found your bubbles.

1219
00:47:41,458 --> 00:47:43,293
But what happens?

1220
00:47:43,293 --> 00:47:44,828
But what happens
if you go out there

1221
00:47:44,828 --> 00:47:46,496
and you know it, it fall short?

1222
00:47:46,496 --> 00:47:47,798
You know,
that's a great question.

1223
00:47:47,798 --> 00:47:51,034
So we try the best
we can to find

1224
00:47:51,335 --> 00:47:54,004
the right place
for the right question.

1225
00:47:54,004 --> 00:47:57,507
And there are times
where maybe it's not exactly

1226
00:47:57,507 --> 00:47:59,243
the way you expected. Right?

1227
00:47:59,243 --> 00:48:02,279
So even when we went out
to Iceland this summer,

1228
00:48:02,579 --> 00:48:03,547
we were pretty sure

1229
00:48:03,547 --> 00:48:06,650
we were going to find
specific kinds of signatures.

1230
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:08,986
And once we got out there,
things were, you know, that

1231
00:48:08,986 --> 00:48:10,287
maybe we expected

1232
00:48:10,287 --> 00:48:12,155
the temperatures
to be a little bit different,

1233
00:48:12,155 --> 00:48:15,158
and it wasn't exactly
what we expected or the pH

1234
00:48:15,225 --> 00:48:16,360
we thought would shift more,

1235
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,228
and it wasn't exactly
what we expected.

1236
00:48:18,228 --> 00:48:20,998
One of the great parts about
this is that,

1237
00:48:20,998 --> 00:48:22,833
you know, these are not a loss.

1238
00:48:22,833 --> 00:48:25,302
And I think we don't talk about
that enough in science.

1239
00:48:25,302 --> 00:48:28,438
Is that having a result
that is different from what

1240
00:48:28,438 --> 00:48:31,575
you expected or your hypothesis
is not a bad result?

1241
00:48:31,775 --> 00:48:33,343
That's still good science.

1242
00:48:33,343 --> 00:48:35,579
And so it's a it's a really good
opportunity to sit there,

1243
00:48:35,579 --> 00:48:39,082
take a breath and say, okay,
well what does this mean?

1244
00:48:39,383 --> 00:48:40,450
And if I tried to come up

1245
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:43,453
with a hypothesis
where this was the result,

1246
00:48:43,687 --> 00:48:46,523
then how do I need to reframe
my thinking

1247
00:48:46,523 --> 00:48:47,858
about this kind of environment?

1248
00:48:47,858 --> 00:48:49,793
So it's actually
a really good opportunity.

1249
00:48:49,793 --> 00:48:50,494
It does happen.

1250
00:48:50,494 --> 00:48:52,562
But yeah, it's
an opportunity to learn

1251
00:48:52,562 --> 00:48:54,665
and it opens new questions.
Right. Does.

1252
00:48:54,665 --> 00:48:57,434
And you have so many questions
now. Yes.

1253
00:48:57,434 --> 00:48:58,969
So you know,
you were out there in the field.

1254
00:48:58,969 --> 00:49:01,872
Did you find again
you found the the vents.

1255
00:49:01,872 --> 00:49:04,374
But you know I do know that
your took some investigations.

1256
00:49:04,374 --> 00:49:06,443
Did you get any results
back from the we

1257
00:49:06,443 --> 00:49:08,211
we are just getting some results

1258
00:49:08,211 --> 00:49:11,181
back already
so that's very exciting. Yes.

1259
00:49:11,181 --> 00:49:11,648
I've been looking

1260
00:49:11,648 --> 00:49:14,584
at some of our isotope data
this week, which has been

1261
00:49:14,584 --> 00:49:16,353
really great to look at.

1262
00:49:16,353 --> 00:49:16,954
And what we're seeing.

1263
00:49:16,954 --> 00:49:18,021
We had a couple of different

1264
00:49:18,021 --> 00:49:20,090
areas
in the lake in different depths.

1265
00:49:20,090 --> 00:49:22,626
We are seeing that, you know,
as you go

1266
00:49:22,626 --> 00:49:24,695
closer to the vent
or further away from the vent,

1267
00:49:24,695 --> 00:49:26,463
you're
getting different signatures.

1268
00:49:26,463 --> 00:49:29,232
So that could really help us
figure out how to explore

1269
00:49:29,232 --> 00:49:32,135
these sorts of areas
on other planets and moons.

1270
00:49:32,135 --> 00:49:32,436
Right.

1271
00:49:32,436 --> 00:49:35,472
So having that distinctive
signature is really nice.

1272
00:49:35,672 --> 00:49:37,474
We also looked at
not just the Lake

1273
00:49:37,474 --> 00:49:40,410
Cleaver van, which is this lake
that we've had in the videos,

1274
00:49:40,410 --> 00:49:43,013
but an acidic lake
that was just to the south.

1275
00:49:43,013 --> 00:49:44,448
Lake Greenhaven.

1276
00:49:44,448 --> 00:49:46,650
And those are very
chemically distinct.

1277
00:49:46,650 --> 00:49:48,618
So it was really nice
to see that,

1278
00:49:48,618 --> 00:49:50,287
that our hypothesis was correct,

1279
00:49:50,287 --> 00:49:52,656
that at least they would look
very distinctive.

1280
00:49:52,656 --> 00:49:55,659
But I think we're going to start
to see, with all of the data.

1281
00:49:55,659 --> 00:49:59,196
So not only do we have like
the inorganic material,

1282
00:49:59,329 --> 00:50:02,332
we have organic material data
from that coming back.

1283
00:50:02,499 --> 00:50:06,236
And I think that by combining
all of that data, we'll see

1284
00:50:06,336 --> 00:50:08,405
where does that carbon go.

1285
00:50:08,405 --> 00:50:10,040
So it's
kind of like following it

1286
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,408
on the recycling journey.

1287
00:50:11,408 --> 00:50:11,775
Yeah.

1288
00:50:11,775 --> 00:50:14,211
Where it goes
like up through the crust.

1289
00:50:14,211 --> 00:50:15,812
And so that's
our original product.

1290
00:50:15,812 --> 00:50:16,446
Right.

1291
00:50:16,446 --> 00:50:18,315
And then as it goes up
through the crust

1292
00:50:18,315 --> 00:50:20,684
it gets altered.
It gets used by something.

1293
00:50:20,684 --> 00:50:23,053
It could be in the atmosphere.
It could get dissolved

1294
00:50:23,053 --> 00:50:26,056
into the water
or used by some microbes.

1295
00:50:26,123 --> 00:50:29,526
And so we can actually see that
recycling through the system

1296
00:50:29,659 --> 00:50:31,828
by using the isotopes.

1297
00:50:31,828 --> 00:50:33,196
And so you're talking about,
you know,

1298
00:50:33,196 --> 00:50:36,800
you found different signatures
closer to the vent farther away.

1299
00:50:37,334 --> 00:50:39,970
Can you give us an example of
like what is the signature

1300
00:50:39,970 --> 00:50:42,139
that you're looking for.
That's a great question. Yeah.

1301
00:50:42,139 --> 00:50:43,774
So it depends on what you're
looking at.

1302
00:50:43,774 --> 00:50:45,609
So because I'm a geochemist,

1303
00:50:45,609 --> 00:50:47,844
I tend to look
at chemical signatures.

1304
00:50:47,844 --> 00:50:50,747
So that could be like
the concentration of something.

1305
00:50:50,747 --> 00:50:53,750
So maybe we have more
or less oxygen

1306
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:55,352
as we go
into a different environment.

1307
00:50:55,352 --> 00:50:58,355
Or maybe,
you know, with these isotopes

1308
00:50:58,388 --> 00:51:01,725
we sometimes
see that it looks more magmatic.

1309
00:51:02,259 --> 00:51:04,661
That means like coming
from the magma chambers

1310
00:51:04,661 --> 00:51:06,496
or from this
like from the deep Earth.

1311
00:51:06,496 --> 00:51:08,165
So it's coming more from that

1312
00:51:08,165 --> 00:51:10,801
in certain areas
versus other areas.

1313
00:51:10,801 --> 00:51:11,501
So that's actually

1314
00:51:11,501 --> 00:51:15,005
really helpful for understanding
how the carbon moves around.

1315
00:51:15,305 --> 00:51:16,073
Okay.

1316
00:51:16,073 --> 00:51:19,076
And so I have a great follow up
question actually from Batsu

1317
00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:22,779
Z9 on YouTube
who asks, you know,

1318
00:51:22,779 --> 00:51:27,117
what are the signs of life in
other planets to look out for.

1319
00:51:27,117 --> 00:51:30,954
So again, kind of picture
this is set on Enceladus

1320
00:51:30,954 --> 00:51:34,925
or Europa, in your geochemical
background, you know,

1321
00:51:34,925 --> 00:51:36,693
what are some signatures

1322
00:51:36,693 --> 00:51:37,994
that you might look out

1323
00:51:37,994 --> 00:51:38,829
for in the water

1324
00:51:38,829 --> 00:51:41,832
that that tells us that
there could be something alive?

1325
00:51:42,032 --> 00:51:43,467
This is a great question
and actually

1326
00:51:43,467 --> 00:51:45,635
a really challenging one,
because it kind of gets

1327
00:51:45,635 --> 00:51:48,605
into like an existential crisis,
like what is life

1328
00:51:48,638 --> 00:51:50,774
and and
how do we look for it. Right?

1329
00:51:50,774 --> 00:51:54,978
So there are many different
kinds of ways we look for life.

1330
00:51:55,145 --> 00:51:58,915
So there are certain, there are
certain, scientific groups

1331
00:51:58,915 --> 00:51:59,716
that really ascribe

1332
00:51:59,716 --> 00:52:02,886
to the idea of looking for
particular organic molecules.

1333
00:52:03,086 --> 00:52:04,221
So these are molecules

1334
00:52:04,221 --> 00:52:06,623
that are formed of carbon
and might have things

1335
00:52:06,623 --> 00:52:09,693
like hydrogen or oxygen or
nitrogen kind of attached to it.

1336
00:52:10,093 --> 00:52:10,827
So they're very

1337
00:52:10,827 --> 00:52:13,196
specific arrangements
of carbon molecules.

1338
00:52:13,196 --> 00:52:13,864
Right.

1339
00:52:13,864 --> 00:52:17,134
So certain people, and groups
think that that's the best way,

1340
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,403
I particularly this is just,
you know, my, my group,

1341
00:52:20,403 --> 00:52:23,807
of course, we ascribe to
this idea that isotopes can help

1342
00:52:23,807 --> 00:52:24,908
you do this.

1343
00:52:24,908 --> 00:52:26,810
So if you imagine
I won't go through

1344
00:52:26,810 --> 00:52:29,045
all of the the fuss of, like,
what is an isotope?

1345
00:52:29,045 --> 00:52:32,315
But imagine that
all of the material we take up.

1346
00:52:32,315 --> 00:52:34,818
So anything you eat has carbon
in it.

1347
00:52:34,818 --> 00:52:36,753
Because we're carbon
based life forms

1348
00:52:36,753 --> 00:52:38,955
and so arc
that we take in this carbon

1349
00:52:38,955 --> 00:52:42,125
and we fundamentally transform
that carbon.

1350
00:52:42,592 --> 00:52:44,561
So we also have byproducts.

1351
00:52:44,561 --> 00:52:48,064
Sorry, but so basically
anything that comes out

1352
00:52:48,064 --> 00:52:50,133
of us
is fundamentally transformed

1353
00:52:50,133 --> 00:52:52,402
from the original
that we took it.

1354
00:52:52,402 --> 00:52:53,303
And it's traceable.

1355
00:52:53,303 --> 00:52:54,171
So, you know,

1356
00:52:54,171 --> 00:52:57,207
I joke with people that,
that I look for microbe farts.

1357
00:52:57,207 --> 00:52:59,576
And that's basically
what I would be doing in

1358
00:52:59,576 --> 00:53:03,513
the solar system is looking
for the evidence of metabolism.

1359
00:53:03,780 --> 00:53:06,316
So I want to say like, well,
this is the original.

1360
00:53:06,316 --> 00:53:08,118
So that's why we have these

1361
00:53:08,118 --> 00:53:10,887
we have samples from all over,
you know, this lake

1362
00:53:10,887 --> 00:53:13,056
and we have sediment
samples too.

1363
00:53:13,056 --> 00:53:15,158
We have gaseous samples,
liquid samples,

1364
00:53:15,158 --> 00:53:16,927
because we want to be able
to say

1365
00:53:16,927 --> 00:53:20,463
if a microbe interacted with
this and used it to make energy,

1366
00:53:20,931 --> 00:53:24,301
then I should be able to see
that byproduct in one of these

1367
00:53:24,301 --> 00:53:25,235
different products.

1368
00:53:25,235 --> 00:53:26,536
So on a different moon,

1369
00:53:26,536 --> 00:53:29,039
so on and Solidus or Europa
for instance,

1370
00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:31,908
then we actually could see
a lot of these byproducts

1371
00:53:31,908 --> 00:53:34,344
in just the gas,
which means it's easier.

1372
00:53:34,344 --> 00:53:37,113
We can actually do it
from the surface or from orbit.

1373
00:53:37,113 --> 00:53:39,516
We don't actually have to dive
through the ice,

1374
00:53:39,516 --> 00:53:41,117
or drill through the ice
in order to get there.

1375
00:53:41,117 --> 00:53:42,586
So it might actually be
a little easier.

1376
00:53:42,586 --> 00:53:44,554
That's why I love isotopes.
Yeah.

1377
00:53:44,554 --> 00:53:46,089
And I mean,
I have a great follow up

1378
00:53:46,089 --> 00:53:49,092
from Tommy T on X
who basically gets to

1379
00:53:49,526 --> 00:53:51,928
you gets at this point about,
you know,

1380
00:53:51,928 --> 00:53:55,432
preparing to find life
as we don't know it.

1381
00:53:55,432 --> 00:54:00,136
And so, like, how does NASA plan
to detect forms of biology

1382
00:54:00,136 --> 00:54:01,538
that don't necessarily fit

1383
00:54:01,538 --> 00:54:04,574
into our biological rulebook,
which I, you were getting

1384
00:54:04,574 --> 00:54:05,609
into a little bit better?

1385
00:54:05,609 --> 00:54:07,377
Yeah. Yeah,
this is a fantastic question.

1386
00:54:07,377 --> 00:54:08,411
So there's a,

1387
00:54:08,411 --> 00:54:11,915
a whole group of people,
who have started thinking

1388
00:54:11,915 --> 00:54:13,750
about
this agnostic biosignatures.

1389
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:18,154
So how do we take what we know
out of that equation?

1390
00:54:18,455 --> 00:54:21,124
I think that there are
some really interesting things

1391
00:54:21,124 --> 00:54:24,094
that people have tried to use,
like complexity.

1392
00:54:24,094 --> 00:54:27,364
So molecular complexity,
because life does get tend

1393
00:54:27,364 --> 00:54:28,798
to get
a little bit more complex.

1394
00:54:28,798 --> 00:54:31,134
But that's not going
to be perfect, right?

1395
00:54:31,134 --> 00:54:32,869
Because we know that we have

1396
00:54:32,869 --> 00:54:34,337
single celled
life forms here on Earth.

1397
00:54:34,337 --> 00:54:37,140
So how much is that
that helpful.

1398
00:54:37,140 --> 00:54:38,708
So I think there are a lot of

1399
00:54:38,708 --> 00:54:40,110
different things
that we could do.

1400
00:54:40,110 --> 00:54:42,812
Again, I'm going to go back to
I love metabolism

1401
00:54:42,812 --> 00:54:46,216
because most of the way
that we think about life

1402
00:54:46,216 --> 00:54:51,221
is that everything, like life
has to use, like consume energy.

1403
00:54:51,988 --> 00:54:53,590
And so if there is something

1404
00:54:53,590 --> 00:54:56,493
consuming energy,
then as a result,

1405
00:54:56,493 --> 00:54:59,029
it will fundamentally
change its environment.

1406
00:54:59,029 --> 00:55:02,866
And so I think that like
metabolism to me, and the evil

1407
00:55:02,932 --> 00:55:04,034
evidence of metabolism,

1408
00:55:04,034 --> 00:55:07,570
which could be isotopic or
it could be just chemical too,

1409
00:55:07,804 --> 00:55:09,606
it also could be mineralogical

1410
00:55:09,606 --> 00:55:11,474
is as you know, Mike was on here

1411
00:55:11,474 --> 00:55:13,677
talking about earlier
about about minerals.

1412
00:55:13,677 --> 00:55:15,245
There are certain minerals
where you could tell

1413
00:55:15,245 --> 00:55:16,880
that they were formed by life.

1414
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,983
Or you could say
you could see sedimentary rocks

1415
00:55:19,983 --> 00:55:20,483
and that

1416
00:55:20,483 --> 00:55:23,086
there was definitely life forms
that were altering that. Yeah.

1417
00:55:23,086 --> 00:55:27,490
So ultimately I think it's going
to, it's going to require

1418
00:55:27,490 --> 00:55:31,294
a combination of evidence
to convince people like me

1419
00:55:31,594 --> 00:55:33,396
that we actually saw life
somewhere.

1420
00:55:33,396 --> 00:55:36,266
Well, it's cool to just to hear,
like, the breath of people

1421
00:55:36,266 --> 00:55:39,269
that are already studying
this question from any angle.

1422
00:55:39,302 --> 00:55:42,739
And, you know,
we have y'all impress on YouTube

1423
00:55:42,739 --> 00:55:46,176
who asks what discovery
would excite NASA scientists

1424
00:55:46,176 --> 00:55:49,145
or you over the next ten years
in this space?

1425
00:55:49,746 --> 00:55:50,814
There's so many.

1426
00:55:51,915 --> 00:55:54,117
I mean,
I'm a nerd, let's be honest.

1427
00:55:54,117 --> 00:55:57,721
So anything really excites me
about all of these discoveries.

1428
00:55:58,054 --> 00:56:00,857
I think in the,

1429
00:56:00,857 --> 00:56:02,959
you know,

1430
00:56:02,959 --> 00:56:05,362
honestly, at this point,
I'm just waiting

1431
00:56:05,362 --> 00:56:06,563
for us to get to Europa.

1432
00:56:06,563 --> 00:56:09,566
So the Europa Clipper
mission is on its way.

1433
00:56:09,566 --> 00:56:12,635
I was just so utterly excited.

1434
00:56:12,635 --> 00:56:14,304
I'm so excited about this
mission.

1435
00:56:14,304 --> 00:56:17,674
And I am really excited
to see what they find,

1436
00:56:17,674 --> 00:56:18,608
because I think

1437
00:56:18,608 --> 00:56:20,043
when we get there,

1438
00:56:20,043 --> 00:56:23,046
the things that we are going
to learn that we didn't know

1439
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:27,117
are going to change the way
that we think about,

1440
00:56:27,317 --> 00:56:30,320
like ocean moons and probably
habitability in general.

1441
00:56:30,453 --> 00:56:34,758
So I think at that point, it's
just any information

1442
00:56:34,758 --> 00:56:38,461
about how these oceans
work, on a different moon,

1443
00:56:38,762 --> 00:56:41,331
like we had this
snapshot of Enceladus,

1444
00:56:41,331 --> 00:56:44,601
but going to Europa
and kind of diving it well,

1445
00:56:44,601 --> 00:56:47,370
not actually diving in, but like
being getting it very close.

1446
00:56:47,370 --> 00:56:48,605
Yeah. Very closely.

1447
00:56:48,605 --> 00:56:50,273
I think that is going

1448
00:56:50,273 --> 00:56:53,276
to really fundamentally change
the way we think about this.

1449
00:56:53,410 --> 00:56:55,445
I also agree that going to Mars

1450
00:56:55,445 --> 00:56:57,447
like humans
on Mars, if we can get there,

1451
00:56:58,415 --> 00:57:00,450
that is really going to change
the way that we think

1452
00:57:00,450 --> 00:57:04,354
about habitability and life and
and how we sustain ourselves.

1453
00:57:04,354 --> 00:57:06,556
Yeah, absolutely.

1454
00:57:06,556 --> 00:57:08,625
We have Jared Bianco on Twitter.

1455
00:57:08,625 --> 00:57:09,659
You asked, you know,

1456
00:57:09,659 --> 00:57:12,662
did your team work closely
with the Europa Clipper, folks?

1457
00:57:12,962 --> 00:57:16,232
Not for this particular,
investigation.

1458
00:57:16,232 --> 00:57:18,001
However, I am part of a team

1459
00:57:18,001 --> 00:57:20,403
that is working
with, with one of those teams.

1460
00:57:20,403 --> 00:57:23,139
So we actually do
a lot of laboratory experiments

1461
00:57:23,139 --> 00:57:25,742
that are trying to predict,
you know,

1462
00:57:25,742 --> 00:57:28,878
what their instruments might see
when they get to Europa.

1463
00:57:28,878 --> 00:57:32,982
So we're trying to develop
not just like kind of schematic

1464
00:57:32,982 --> 00:57:35,351
models like, oh,
if we see this, it means this,

1465
00:57:35,351 --> 00:57:38,822
but also things like
mathematical models and machine

1466
00:57:38,822 --> 00:57:39,522
learning models.

1467
00:57:39,522 --> 00:57:42,425
Even so, it's really like
when you get this data,

1468
00:57:42,425 --> 00:57:45,195
could we use that to like
really quickly understand

1469
00:57:45,195 --> 00:57:47,630
are we seeing life
or is it just like,

1470
00:57:47,630 --> 00:57:49,599
okay, this is like cool salt
water. Yeah.

1471
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:50,433
Yeah yeah. Different.

1472
00:57:50,433 --> 00:57:50,867
Yeah.

1473
00:57:50,867 --> 00:57:52,168
Well, Bethany,
I mean the work that

1474
00:57:52,168 --> 00:57:54,337
you're doing
is fascinating. Seriously.

1475
00:57:54,337 --> 00:57:56,039
Thank you so much
for being here with us.

1476
00:57:56,039 --> 00:57:58,374
Thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.

1477
00:57:58,374 --> 00:58:01,010
And thank you so much
for joining us from home.

1478
00:58:01,010 --> 00:58:02,345
Now, if you liked the clips

1479
00:58:02,345 --> 00:58:04,647
we shared today,
there's plenty more to see.

1480
00:58:04,647 --> 00:58:07,650
So head on over to NASA
Science's YouTube channel

1481
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:08,818
to watch the full length

1482
00:58:08,818 --> 00:58:11,821
versions of all the videos
featured in this episode.

1483
00:58:12,155 --> 00:58:13,056
But that's not all.

1484
00:58:13,056 --> 00:58:14,591
Now, if you're curious to see

1485
00:58:14,591 --> 00:58:17,193
even more of
how NASA scientists explore

1486
00:58:17,193 --> 00:58:20,730
some of the most extreme
and fascinating places on Earth,

1487
00:58:20,997 --> 00:58:24,534
be sure to check out our new
Planetary Expeditions blog.

1488
00:58:24,834 --> 00:58:27,604
It's where we share stories
straight from the field.

1489
00:58:27,604 --> 00:58:31,007
You can also follow
along their adventures on,

1490
00:58:31,007 --> 00:58:34,377
Facebook and Instagram by
following NASA's Solar System.

1491
00:58:34,844 --> 00:58:37,847
Now, if you're craving
even more stories like these, be

1492
00:58:37,847 --> 00:58:41,951
sure to check out the Our Alien
Earth documentary on NASA.

1493
00:58:41,951 --> 00:58:45,021
Plus, it dives into
how we're exploring our own

1494
00:58:45,021 --> 00:58:48,258
planet to help us prepare
to search for life on others.

1495
00:58:48,825 --> 00:58:51,594
It has been fantastic having you
with us as we followed

1496
00:58:51,594 --> 00:58:54,597
the journeys of some truly
adventurous scientists,

1497
00:58:54,631 --> 00:58:56,900
people who aren't afraid
to get their hands dirty

1498
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:58,501
so we can better understand

1499
00:58:58,501 --> 00:59:01,704
the moon, Mars, our solar system
and beyond.

1500
00:59:02,405 --> 00:59:04,140
Thank you so much
for tuning in today

1501
00:59:04,140 --> 00:59:05,575
and we
hope to see you next time.