But why
some say the moon
and why choose this as our goal
the engines are right
3 - 2 -1-0
We have lift off
We choose to go to the moon
Apollo 12, looks beautiful
And like
high desert
of the United States
But it's very pretty out here.
If we choose to go to the moon
Hello and welcome
to another episode of NASA's
Science Life.
An opportunity
for you to interact
with NASA's experts
and have your questions
answered live.
My name is Joan
and I'm
your host for today's show.
As we talk about
some very exciting news
The opening
of one of the last pristine
moon samples
from the Apollo lunar missions.
If you have questions, send
the men using the hashtag.
Ask Natalya on social media.
Or wherever you
are watching the show today.
When upon it, astronauts began
bringing back samples
from the moon
to Earth over 50 years ago,
Nosotros
to keep some samples
unopened and untouched.
So why was that?
Well,
nothing new
that science and technology
would evolve.
So they wanted
future scientists to be able
to study these unique samples
using new tools
and state
of the art laboratories.
This became known
as the Apollo Next Generation
in sample analysis
or the Answer initiative.
And this past Monday
and Tuesday,
the very last pristine core
sample of the moon
from the Apollo 17
mission was extracted
from its vaccine sealed tube
in one of the cleanest
laboratory facilities at NASA's
Johnson Space Center,
which is the hub
for extraterrestrial samples.
This process was months
in the making.
And today
we have some
very special guests
to tell us all about it.
I'm joined today by Dr.
Juliana Gross, deputy
Apollo curator.
And Dr.
Jacob Elijah,
NASA's chief
exploration scientist.
You can tell us
how data from this sample
will inform future scientists
and missions to the moon.
Thank you so much
for joining us today.
Thank you so
much for having us.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So, Julianna,
you've been involved
in this MONTHS-LONG process
to open
and extract
this pristine sample
from the moon.
We're dying to know
what that was like.
Can you walk us through
what these past few months
have been like for
you and your team?
Of course,
I'm happy to do that.
The process
actually started
about three years ago,
and it involves
a lot of planning
and developing and testing.
And really what
the collaboration between
all sorts
of different institutions
that includes NASA
and the European Space Agency,
the University
of New Mexico,
Washington University
in Saint Louis,
just to name a few.
And so the sample
we're talking about
is actually
a very special sample.
It is the lower part
of a double drive tube
that the astronauts hammered
into the ground
on the lunar surface,
and that
then filled
with rocks and soil.
And the lower
part of this drive tube
was sealed
into a vacuum container
because it comes from deep
within the lunar surface.
And it's very, very cold there.
Any potential gases
and volatiles
that are trapped on there
get sealed
into this vacuum container
and then get preserved there.
And so once
that sample came back to Earth,
it was placed
in another vacuum container
and just to keep safe.
And really all and I'm
just saying
all that we had to do
is just to,
you know, figure out
how to actually get
the gas out of that container.
Before we open it
because we didn't
want that to just escape.
And so
it's developed
a piercing tool for us.
And then the
University of Washington
and Louis
State developed
a gas extraction manifold
for this particular purpose.
And so all of this about
seven weeks ago,
all the pieces came
together and
they're now in our lab
and we tested them.
And we were able
to actually peer
into the vacuum container
and release all these gases
that are trapped in there.
And so you can see
the manifold in the movie
right here.
And the gas gets
then stored in these canisters
that you saw a minute ago.
And then we can
we can take the gas
from the canisters
and distribute it
to different scientists.
And so here you can see
the piercing tool
in the foreground
with us
doing measurements
and actually
seeing the actual sample.
And so the thing that we did
after that
was to CT scan
the sample
X-ray computed tomography.
CT scanning is
what people usually know about.
That's from medicine.
When a doctor scanned you
to look inside
you without actually
cutting you open
and we can do the same thing
with rocks.
And so
you can see our city
facility here.
And so that gave us
the very first glimpse
looking through the vacuum
container
into the actual sample,
what it looked like.
And it was a really good thing
that we did that
because it turns out
the sample was overfilled,
which is a
great problem to have
but it
made it really hard
for us to extrude.
So last week, Andrea Mosey
and I
spent all of that week
to figure out a new way
of how to open
that sealed vacuum container
and take the sample out
carefully
without losing
any of this extra salt.
And so just on Monday
or three days ago,
it's when we actually
finally opened the
that sealed vacuum container
and took the sample out
for the very first time.
You can see that
here in the movie.
That's the very first glimpse
that we got.
And so that is the first time
anybody has seen this sample
since it was sealed on them
one 50 years ago.
And so for us
to be the first people
to actually do
this was extremely exciting
and fun to do.
So, yeah,
it has been a long seven weeks,
but it's totally worth it.
Wow, that must be so exciting.
And the process
is just incredible.
I bet most people at home
thought you just twisted
cap and open these tubes.
I had no idea that there were
so many different steps in that
that it was so involved.
And so, Jake,
these samples were collected
on the moon
nearly 50 years ago,
and now nascent is planning
to return
to the lunar surface
with the ultimate program.
How will what we learn
from this sample
inform future
human missions to the moon?
Yeah,
it really a good question.
First,
I just want to say how
super exciting this is.
I mean, that's really cool
to see that video L.A.
is just showing.
I mean, that
that's the way it hasn't
been seen
by anybody for 50 years,
which is so cool.
And now we're
going to learn about it.
So, you know,
this is
really an extension
of our lunar
exploration, right?
We went with Apollo
and now
we're going with Artemus,
but we're going to
a very different place.
We're going to the South Pole
and in the South Pole
there are some locations
because the sun is coming
at a very oblique angle
to the
to the very bottom of the moon,
that South Pole of the moon,
there are some depressions,
impact craters
from where
debris from space
has hit the moon in the past
and made a depression
that we never see
sunlight down there.
And so these permanently
shadowed regions
we call them
ours, permanently
shadowed regions
never see sunlight.
And so water
that maybe was delivered
to the moon by comets
or potentially
from within the moon itself,
that gets into
one of these traps.
It's stuck there.
We call these cold traps.
And so some of the samples
that we hope to collect now
in this mission in the Artemis
program would,
we hope,
have volatiles with them.
And so what
we're hoping to learn from this
Apollo sample
is how
well did the container trap
all of that material,
those gases that you
talked about,
any volatiles from the moon
and whether or not
anything leaked
into that sample from
from here on Earth?
Because that's really going
to help inform us
how to do this. Well,
when we go to the South Pole
and just like here on Earth,
any job that you might do,
it's a little bit easier
if you have the right tools.
So we want to make sure that
we get the best samples
from the South Pole of the moon
so that scientists can
study it,
so we can understand
the water cycle
and whether or not
the water could be used
as a resource
for our astronauts.
But to do that right,
we really need
to design that right
kind of tool.
The tools
to pick up the samples
and the tools
to contain the samples,
preserve them,
make sure we don't kind of
get them contaminated
with any of our gases
from here on Earth
or inside of our spacecraft.
So it's really exciting
not just to learn the science
from this Apollo sample,
but learn about the container
that they put it into
and how well it worked,
how well
kept those gases in there.
And you can almost kind
of think about this
as an Apollo sample,
but it's almost like the first
of the Artemis samples, right?
We're just about to go.
And here we are
opening up a new rock
for the moon.
So it's really an exciting
time for for all of us.
You know,
you've just opened
this pristine moon rock sample.
What's next
for you and your team?
Okay, so there are a couple
next steps
The first one we did on Tuesday
is once
the core gets
pushed out of a tube,
basically onto a table
that has a mold
so it can hold the core
and then we are
we're scraping the very
first millimeter
off the surface
very carefully
because that surface
has been in contact
with the core tube.
Basically,
and you can see me here
in the video where I'm marking
where we want
to scrape the surface off.
Yeah.
Here you can see it scraping.
And we do this
because we
want to expose the pristine
sample underneath
that has never been in contact
with any material
basically from Earth.
And so that cuts down
on any potential contamination
once that is done.
So we finished that on Tuesday
at the very moment
we have
researchers
from the University of Hawaii
in our lab,
and they are going to do
hyperspectral analysis
on the core acid
system, the cabinet
at the moment.
And that means they're shining
light on it
and then
they're looking at the light
that gets reflected
off the core surface
and they analyze that light.
And that gives us
some indication of chemistry
and how the chemistry
might change from top
to bottom off the core.
And that can also be used
for ground
truthing any orbiters
that we have going around
the moon
who look at reflective light
from the lunar surface, which
is sunlight.
And so once that is done
next week,
Monday is when we start
the very tedious process
of really dissecting the core.
And that means
we're taking it apart
bit by bit.
You know,
every half centimeter
we're taking a sample
and then we're storing
that in little containers,
and we're doing that
to preserve
any potential layers
that we can't really see
with our eyes.
And that then can be allocated
to two scientists.
While we're doing that,
we are creating
a preliminary examination,
and that means we're describing
what grain sizes we see,
what colors we see.
We will remove larger
rock fragments
and then we will
scan them again
to see the inside
and the textures.
And then we're creating
this big catalog where people
from all over the world
and then can look at it,
and it's specifically
really useful for researchers
because then they can select
the best
sample possible
to do their best
science possible.
And so that's
that's the next couple of
months for us, really
well, that's really exciting.
We have a lot of questions
coming in online.
If you have questions
for our expert,
send them in by commenting
in the stream
wherever you're watching
or by using the hashtag,
ask and ask that
on social media.
So our first question is
from Vegan
in the Mirror on Reddit
and they ask
if you take a sample
from the moon
and close
the container airtight,
is it
automatically vacuum sealed
or do you need to do
something with it?
So it is vacuum sealed.
And that's a very
good question.
I can
I can quickly
give some insights
and then maybe Jay
can follow up on it.
So when you take a container
on the moon,
which is basically vacuum
because the moon doesn't
have an atmosphere
and you just close it
like side as you can,
you just screw the lid on,
that doesn't really mean
that it's airtight
because there
there might be grains
from the lunar surface
that get attached in between.
It could be little cracks or,
you know, in between
and so once you return
that to Earth, our atmosphere,
which is so much more pressure
than the vacuum
that you have in the container,
it can seep into this container
through all of these
little cracks and nooks
and like little
gaps, basically.
So in order to really vacuum
seal it,
you have to have kind of like
a metal gasket or a metal ring
that when you press down
your lid, it really seals.
It goes into
all the little nooks
and crannies and really seal
your sample inside.
And that's
what the astronaut did
with this with this
vacuum container
that was a
a gasket or a ring
that sealed it, a metal ring
that is soft enough
to really get into pressed
into all of the little nooks
and crannies
to seal everything in there.
Jake,
do you want a follow up
on that?
Yeah.
And everything that you
just described
is exactly what
we want to understand
how well that worked,
because we can update
that somewhat
as we move forward for Artemus.
But it might be sufficient
for what we need.
And another part to
that is understanding
how we're going to be
collecting samples
in the South Pole
so we know how these samples
were collected.
And we know that this approach
will yield a certain result,
which you and our team
and scientists around
the world
are going to understand
over the next several weeks.
But we'll need to think about
how that applies
to where
we will be sampling
in the South Pole
because we're fairly
certain there's water there,
but we don't know
so much is what
the status of that water is.
Is it
a little bit of water
mixed with
lunar dust or regolith,
or is it bigger pieces of ice
mixed in there?
Or is
it actually just solid ice?
So there's a lot for
us to learn.
And so understanding really
how well this process
that you only just described,
the work for Apollo
how well it contained
that over 50 years,
that's very critical for us
as we start designing
And so a lot of
people online
are asking versions
of this question
What do moon rock samples smell
like?
Well, it's that amount.
The Moon Rock.
That's a great question
actually. Yeah.
That is a good question.
I mean, the astronauts
always describe it
as it smells like gunpowder
a little bit.
We we don't really
smell the sample.
So all the samples that we have
are backed in Teflon backs
in a nitrogen gas
filled atmosphere.
And that's
where they get stored
and so we never, ever
take Apollo samples out
and expose them to air
sniff at them or any
anything like that.
And so I yeah.
And so in this video here,
you can see us opening
the core sample,
but it is within a glove box,
and that is filled
with nitrogen gas.
So that and it's very dry
so that the soil doesn't
react with Earth atmosphere.
So we're trying
to keep the sample safe
from any
potential contamination.
So you really can't take it out
and smell at it.
So I don't
I don't know the answer to
that question,
but I think early on to
the point you made
that smells like
gunpowder is something
that many of
the Apollo astronauts
commented on.
So they actually put
their suits on
and took them off
inside their their habitat,
basically
like their living
room, sort of.
So they would put the suit on
and go shuffle around
and do the work
and as you know,
from here on Earth,
we go outside
and you work outside,
you get dirty. Right.
And so the astronauts,
they had some of that lunar
regolith on their suits.
And in fact,
you can still see that
on the suits today.
And so they did describe
that smell as somewhat
gunpowder like.
So, you know,
that's pretty
much our best chance
at knowing
what lunar rocks smell like
until maybe we go back
and try that again.
That's a really
interesting question. Yeah.
Lara, the mosaic
on Twitter asks,
why did the Apollo
17 astronauts
choose to sample
from a landslide deposit.
Did they
also take
a sample from flat terrain
to make
you want to
get to go with that?
Sure.
They they collected
a number of samples.
I don't know exactly how many,
but they did collect
a significant number of samples
so for any geologic problem
that you're trying to tackle,
you want to try to sample from
several different locations
so that
you can understand processes
that may be
in effect
across a broader region.
So as a landslide, as is noted
here,
you would want to collect
from inside the landslide side.
Adjacent to the landslide,
there were several different
geologic processes
that the Apollo
17 astronauts were studying.
They also identified
some really unique aspects
to the lunar surface.
This is the mission
in which they identified
orange glass
that's related to
some volcanic processes.
So the reason
we want to send the astronauts
there is
because we can train them
to think quickly.
They see what is going on
and they can make
the best judgment call
about what to pick up,
what's the most important
sample to pick up.
And so in this case,
they're trying to get into
that debris kind of pile.
If you think about a landslide,
11 thing
that a landslide can do for
you on
the moon is bring you material
from much farther away.
We're a little bit
constrained by how far,
especially Apollo,
how far they could go
Apollo 17
had the lunar roving vehicle
so they could.
Which kind of looked
like that dune buggy
that they could drive around.
And they actually covered
the longest distances
of any of the missions.
Still,
you look to things
like impact craters
or landslides
to deliver material from far
the way that they
might not be able
to get to another technique
they used
was to look up hills
and see if any boulders
had rolled down the hill.
And they did that as well.
In that mission,
they identified
some places
where rocks from
a good distance
away had come to them,
so they were able
to sample them.
They have to make
those judgment calls
about what you see around you
and try to collect some sample
of multiple different
things that are going on
as part of that history,
that story that
you're seeing in the rocks.
Another reason why
they particularly
also sample this region
with the core sample
that we have
is that
the landslide
deposit is very close
to a fault,
which is basically
a gigantic crack, so to speak.
And because they sample
so deep within the surface,
one of the
the goals was to capture
any potential gases.
And the hope was
that the fault line
would be a conduit
to like
half the gases
that are from within the moon
that slowly
gas outside of the moon
basically deliver
into this landslide
deposit
that then can be captured
by this drive tube.
And that was one of the reasons
why it was sealed
in a vacuum container
to really capture those
dark carry on.
Reddit asks,
how do you account for what
changes might have occurred
due to time passed
compared to what
they might have found
if today's technology
was available in the past
Okay.
So
I mean, one of the reasons
why NASA's
kept these sample
safe for 50 years
was that they knew
that technology
will evolve with time.
And so the the X-ray computed
scanning, the exit
scanning that
I talked about before,
that's a technology
that didn't really exist
to that extent 50 years ago.
And that gives us the chance
to take rocks, you know,
like big rocks or drive tubes
we showed and CT
scan them which is
a method
that we can use
without hurting the samples.
And so we can look
inside the sample
and we can see the minerals
and we can see the texture
and so we can learn a lot
about where
the sample comes from
within the moon maybe,
and how it formed
without actually
contaminating it
or breaking it.
Mass spectrometers
have evolved over time.
So now there's less samples
that are needed
and they get higher precision,
higher quality data.
And so again,
that wasn't possible.
50 years ago
and before the gas analysis,
for example,
that they knew that
that wasn't
possible 50 years ago.
And so now we have
technology
where we can take
that little bit of gas
that we extract it
and actually get data points
and learn about the
origins of these gases.
And miscues.
On Reddit, they ask,
Are we still running projects
with the sort of eyes of
the future
is seems shockingly altruistic
to gather samples
that won't be examined
in the project
front is lifetime
yes.
Is the question
will we take a similar approach
for our audience?
Is that what the question is?
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Okay.
Well, we real good question.
So we certainly recognize
the value in that.
Now, you know, our
our nascent predecessors
had tremendous foresight
in their ability to
to think through.
You know,
it's like imagine
at Christmas time
trying to save a president
or at a birthday
trying to save a present for,
you know, a year later
I know I certainly couldn't
get my children to do that.
But it's
you know,
we will certainly approach it
in a similar way.
We'll try with the
amount of material
that we're
able to bring home
on these missions
and do the best job we can now.
And I would say
it's probably likely
that we will also save
some sample
for future analysis.
But there are also
new techniques
now that give us the capability
of potentially
doing some of the science
without even opening
the canisters
so as Julianna
talked a little bit about,
as techniques improve, it
may be that
we save some sample
in containers,
but we can still
do some science
without even opening them
right now.
So there's a
number of different lines of
thought on
what we can do with this.
I think that
we will always have an eye
towards preserving
material for future analysis
while trying to do
as much as we can right now
if what we have
I'm content.
More on Twitter asks,
Does the moon have a cool
yes?
The answer is yes.
The moon has a core.
It is debated
how large it is
or how small it is,
but it does have I have a core.
So the moon is a planetary body
and it went through a process
that is called differentiation.
And that really means
just layering based on density.
So when the moon formed,
it was fully molten
once upon a time,
and then all
the heavy elements,
they sink towards the center
like iron nickel,
and that forms the core.
And in all the very light
elements,
they're lighter than the melt.
They rise towards the surface
and built
they make the
crust and then all the minerals
that are somewhere in between,
they built the mantle.
So the moon has layers of core,
a metal and a crust.
And if it was orbiting
the sun by itself,
it had a nice clear orbit then
and what
would be potentially
considered a planet.
And so that's why
we call it a planetary body,
because it has
it has layers just like Earth
and the speed of light
on Twitter then asks,
Has there been any previous
analysis of moon soil samples
and have you found anything
surprising
Yes,
sure.
The the Apollo missions
have sample to the surface
and course,
but also with rock samples
or just just scooping up soil
that was an Apollo 11
or that
took some some samples
just in case
things didn't
really work out well.
And so those are a lot
of those samples.
One of the big things
that we learned from Apollo
11 looking at these
soil samples
is that they found teeny white,
teeny white grains
they're called
and not assigned grains
that project place grains
and so
before Apollo 11
we really didn't understand
how the moon formed
and with these grains
when they were discovered
the only way
to explain their existence
or or
yeah their formation
is that the moon at some point
must have been fully molten
so gigantic magma
ball into space.
And the only way to do that
is that you had to have
a gigantic impact
between two protoplanets
that then made a lot of debris
cloud the inner
part then formed Earth
and then the debris part.
They went around
it coalesced to form the moon.
And so if we hadn't
looked at the soil
samples, then
I mean, who knows
what would have happened.
But that, that
you know, sparked
the idea of the giant impact
and the magma ocean enough
for the moon.
Wow.
That's amazing.
The really important thing
that we've learned from
lunar regolith is that it's,
you know,
might refer to it
as lunar dust,
but it's very different
from dust here on Earth
because there's no
water flowing
and no atmospheric
water around the moon.
And so
that does that lunar
dust is very sharp.
It's almost like
small pieces of glass.
So every time,
every little circle
you see on
the moon is a place
where a rock has hit the moon
or something from space.
It's at the moon.
So what happens
is you get this process
of kind
of shocking and melting
little batches
of the lunar surface again
and then breaking them
apart and shattering them.
And that's
what makes up that regolith
or that dust.
And so learning
that process
has taught us a lot
about how we're going
to move forward with Artemis,
because I mentioned earlier
that the Apollo astronauts
had a lot
of dust on their soup.
Or you can imagine
if dust was really irritating
to your eyes
and your lungs,
which they did start to report
on some of the later missions
when they spent more time
outside on
extravehicular activities
or EVAs
we've learned that
they want to keep that dust out
as much as we can.
So that's really helping inform
the way we move forward.
And it tells us a lot
about the processes
that have have affected what
we see on the moon today.
Yeah, a
really, really
cool thing about lunar soil
is that,
as Jake said,
because there is no water
or wind or atmosphere
that interacts with it,
the lunar surface
has been preserved
since its formation basically.
And so you can think of it
as a museum
for planetary science.
So everything
that has happened over
4.5 billion years ago
is recorded in that lunar soil.
And so you can think
of the lunar soil
as being an archive
that contains
all the knowledge,
the solar system climate.
You know,
how the sun output
might have changed over time.
What materials have been barred
at the surface that most likely
also hit the earth.
And so all of that
knowledge is stored
in the lunar soil.
And all
we have to do is learn
how to read this
archive correctly.
It's it's not easy
said Taylor on Twitter.
Asked, Did
Nasser
come up with a better way
to collect moon rock samples
for Artemus
as compared to Apollo
yeah.
So we have certainly learned
a lot
about how to collect samples,
but we'll probably still use
some of the tried
and tested approaches
that Apollo did.
I mean,
rakes are still really good
at kind of sieving
through the regolith,
the lunar dust to pick up
small bits
that could be used
to, for instance,
get the date of the rock,
how old it is.
Since the events
that helped create that rock,
we will probably
still use hammers.
If we see bigger pieces of rock
to try
to break off a smaller piece.
There are things like tongs
that maybe
help us pick something up
that's kind of harder
to get to or harder to reach.
And we're
certainly going to continue
to use things
like drive tubes,
like the sample that we're
talking about today
from Apollo.
I mean, these are all
you know,
fundamental techniques
for how to collect samples.
I think what we'll see
is little,
little changes to it.
You know, the
the head that's the picks up.
The sample might articulate
slightly differently
or might not articulate.
If we found that
it was difficult
or it got kind of caught up and
gets dust in the gears
or anything like that.
So I think what you will see
is kind of a refinement
to the way we collect samples
until we get into some of
these really dark places.
Where we think we will find
larger amounts of water.
And really
we're going to have to learn
what that environment
is actually like.
How cold is it?
I mentioned earlier,
we don't actually know
what the makeup of the water
is inside there,
and there's probably
other volatiles mixed in some
that aren't
so good for us to
maybe have have around us
or be exposed to.
So we're going to have to learn
a lot about that environment
before we can
probably determine
exactly how
we want to collect those
kinds of samples.
We also are going
to have to learn
and this sample from Apollo
will help us
how to contain them.
But we also have to think
about how to transport them.
So if we want to get
a piece of ice
from the moon back here
to our colleagues
at the Johnson Space Center,
we have to have a whole system
that keeps it cold.
And it might be
that the first few
we try to bring back
don't stay cold enough.
And just like
the sample we're talking about,
it may melt
or vaporize into gas.
And we would have
that gas trapped
inside the container
because of what we're learning
from Apollo.
But ultimately, we'd really
love to give the scientists
a piece of,
you know,
honest to goodness, lunar ice,
because that's
what they tell us
they really want to get to.
So we got to learn
how to do that.
This is a whole process.
This really is fundamental
exploration
in the truest sense.
We're going to a place
we've never been
and we're going to do things
we've never done before.
And so every bit of science
and technology demonstration
that we've done,
starting with Apollo until now,
is critical in understanding
how to do that.
I mean, we really
are standing on the shoulders
of giants
who started this process
for us,
and we're
just continuing
along that path.
So we have a question
from Holly Hughes on YouTube
who asks,
Why do we need to
bring a rain mock
moon rock to earth?
What exactly actually do you
hope to find
I mean, I can take a
first crack at that.
You know, we
we can also take instruments
to the moon.
So we've flown instruments
on spacecraft.
For instance,
the Lunar Reconnaissance
Orbiter
has collected
some of the images
that you've shown
while we were talking here,
other nations
have sent spacecraft
as well to collect data.
We can take those instruments
to the surface.
Apollo took instruments
as well to the surface.
The problem is
you can't take
like the really best
cutting edge type of thing.
The thing that really makes
the good detailed analysis,
the reason
we save these samples
until just now to open up
you know, some of these these
these measurements are
done by instruments
that are big.
They're sometimes,
you know, a whole room
is where
you put that instrument
just to make a measurement
of a tiny
little piece of lunar material.
And we can't take that,
at least not now.
So it's a combination.
It's not really one
or the other.
We're going to go to the
moon to make measurements,
we'll make observations,
and we'll collect material
to bring back to put
into those better instruments
here on Earth.
So we can
really dig down in there
and get
the real detailed information
that we want to look for
Well, Jake
Giuliano,
we've got more questions
for you later on in the show.
But first, let's hear
from a very special guest
who knows a thing or two
about how these samples
were collected
because he was there.
And
one of the most important tools
that we had
was this
car to double drive tube.
And you could drive these
into the surface.
Now, it's still very difficult.
It was the best we had
and we got quite a number
of very good
cause
that are giving us
new information.
It was anticipated
early on in the Apollo program
that analytical technology
would
mature, would
become much more sophisticated
with time,
that we could gain
new information
from the same old samples.
And it makes it
very, very exciting
for everybody.
In fact, Apollo never ended.
Four lunar scientists
I'm now
joined by Andrea Mosey,
Apollo processor,
who has worked in the Moon
sample lab for 46 years
Andre is part of the team
responsible for this
historic sample opening.
Thank you so much
for being with us here today.
Thanks for inviting me.
It's my pleasure.
So, Andre,
you are in the room where
it happened.
Can you tell us what
that was like?
It was very exciting.
The entire process
of removing the sample
from the core cabinet,
assisting with the gas
analysis team.
Then move the sample
over in the port
cabinets will open it up.
And the extrusion.
It was historical.
It was very exciting.
This is the first time
that anyone got
to see the sample,
and we were the first ones
to lay eyes on it.
Yes, that was amazing.
And you've seen many lunar
samples opened.
How was this
one different for you?
The samples we process
daily were returned
by the astronauts
and rock boxes and bags.
Those samples
were then weighed,
packaged, bagged
and stored in our pristine
sample vault.
They remained there
until scientists,
researchers request them
for allocations.
The samples
that we're opening now,
the core samples
have never been open.
Never seen.
Never research by anyone.
So for them to be open now
and we were the first
to open the container
and the first
to see the samples,
that was awesome.
That is so exciting.
Andrea,
thank you so much
for being with us.
And huge congratulations
on a successful lunar
sample opening.
Best of luck over
the coming months.
Thank you so much.
Now don't go anywhere.
We'll be back to answer
more of your questions.
But first, let's take a look at
what the lunar sample
lab is really like
For over 50 years,
NASA astronauts
and scientists have explored
the universe
searching for ways to study
the elements and materials
that make up the solar system.
In NASA's early days,
the Apollo astronauts
walked the lunar surface
to collect moon rocks and soil
for study back on Earth.
In all,
Apollo Explorers
sampled £842 of lunar material.
Today,
those precious samples
are curated within NASA's
Astromaterials Research
and Exploration
Science Division, or Eris.
Many of those lunar samples
are stored in their lunar
sample laboratory
facility at NASA's
Johnson Space Center
in Houston, Texas.
NASA's curators
worked to preserve
the samples
for ongoing
and future scientific research.
The samples are protected
and secure
and environmentally
controlled vaults.
Each sample
is sorted by mission
and stored in Teflon based bags
that are kept in cabinets
filled with nitrogen gas.
To this day,
scientists
from around the world
study and analyze
the samples
to answer important questions
about the moon's
formation and history
to preserve their integrity.
NASA's curators follow strict
safety and handling processes
when working with samples.
It begins
with a laminar airflow
change room.
In this minute, long air shower
keeps the labs where they work
pristinely clean air.
Scientists must also wear
special gear,
including a whole body
non particle shedding
polyester bunny suit
and triple layered gloves.
They also use custom tools
to protect the samples.
Moon rocks
may only be touched with Teflon
aluminum
or stainless steel tools
and the dry nitrogen
atmosphere around them.
This allows curators
to carefully examine samples
while maintaining
their original condition.
This process ensures
the samples are
not contaminated or destroyed
and can be used
to produce scientifically
accurate results.
Technologically Van fanciness,
including next generation
microscopes and other devices,
allow researchers
to examine the samples
through new methods,
resulting in
important discoveries
that answers
some of our oldest questions
We have a lot of questions
coming in online.
If you have questions
for our experts,
send them in
by commenting in the stream
wherever you're watching
or by using the hashtag,
ask NASA on social media.
So let's dig in.
Based boy
logos on YouTube asks,
Are there plans to bring up
bring back
more lunar samples
with the Starship
Human Landing
System or optimize programs
Well, the Artemis program
absolutely has
objectives associated
with bringing back samples.
And the way that we're doing
the missions
now is working
with our commercial partners
to build many of
the key elements.
So the
the SpaceX
Starship
that was referred to in
the question
is one of the parts
of the pathway
that's going to
get us to the surface
for Artemus three.
So it's going to be able
to transport our astronauts
from a lunar orbit
where our space
launch system
and Orion spacecraft
will deliver the astronauts.
So they'll go
into a lunar orbit
and then they'll get on board
with the Space X Lander
and then
they'll go to the surface
they'll do their work
and then that will bring them
back up to a lunar orbit.
So it's a critical piece
of the pathway.
And I mentioned earlier
how we have
these samples
are going to go through
a pathway
to get them back here to Earth.
And so each part of that
pathway is critical.
So and every part of it is
is working
with a different partner
out there
in our commercial community.
So really,
it's an exciting time
to be thinking
about
sending our astronauts
there, bringing them home
with rocks from the moon.
I mean, it's
just it's
a really cool process.
And we're really
looking forward
to all the collaboration
we have with so many
different partners
every year on Twitter.
Ask,
Why were the samples
sealed for 50 years?
Okay.
So the samples were sealed
because NASA
had the good foresight
then knew that
technology
will evolve with time.
They knew that we will come up
with more questions
that we didn't even know
how to ask
or why to ask in the past.
And so the more we learn
about the moon
and the moon, earth formation
since to have a
shared formation history
the more questions we can ask
and the more technology
gets evolved, the
the more detailed of questions
we can ask to really
extract the information
that are stored
in these in these samples.
NASA knew that 50 years ago.
And so that's why
they kept a subset of samples
sealed and safe
so that
future generations
of lunar scientists
get a chance to like
look at samples
that haven't been opened before
and haven't been
contaminated to any degree.
And so that was really great.
And yeah.
Also on Twitter asked,
what is it
like to touch a moon rock
That's a really great question.
So we don't really touch
the moon rocks
when we work with them
because we're our
hands are gloved
So in the movies,
you have seen
that we're wearing these bunny
suits, right?
And then we have gloves on
and then you work
with the samples inside
a glove box.
So you're sticking your hand
inside these these
these big black gloves
that you see here
in the movie right now.
And so when you handle these
these samples,
you can really feel them.
You can.
And the samples
are back themselves,
you know, in Teflon themselves.
And so you can maybe
feel the weight
and how heavy it is.
But you can't
really touch them
with your bare hands
because we don't want to
contaminate the samples.
Our our hands are dirty
no matter how
well you wash them.
There are always particles
and organics on it.
And so we don't want to
contaminate the samples
with any of that
because researchers
might actually
look at potential,
you know, organic
building blocks
that might have been existed
on the lunar surface.
And so we really try very hard
to keep
the sample
as protected
from us as possible.
And that's
why nobody, you know,
grab them
and take them out of the cabin
and holds in their hand.
That's just not what we do.
Jordan on Twitter asked
How many lunar samples does
NASA hope to collect
with the ultimate missions?
Well, we think about it
more in a sense
of how much mass
we can bring back,
because you have to remember,
we're launching
off of the surface of the moon
with rockets.
And depending on how that
that vehicle's designed
it can carry a certain
amount of mass.
And in fact,
that's why
we are trying to work
with multiple
different partners,
because we want to see
what kind of creative solutions
they have to
launching, launching
mass off the surface.
So the goal, I wouldn't
say is so much to bring back
a certain number of rocks
or a certain number of samples.
It's basically
to continue
to increase our capability,
this exploration path
that we're on, where
we're trying to head
in the direction,
where going to the moon is a
is a routine event.
It'll start out with us
going for short
periods of time,
maybe a week at a time,
maybe once a year or so,
but eventually
what we'd like to do
is spend
longer periods of time
on the surface of the moon,
cover more area
and start to bring back
really good samples
from diverse parts of the moon.
That's that's
kind of the key here.
So we think about it
more in a sense
of how much mass
we can bring back.
And really, it
then comes down
to the astronauts
and the science teams
that are working with them
to decide
how to kind of divvy that up.
You know,
are they
going on a certain mission
because they're going to
be able
to drive a long distance
and they want to get
like many small rocks
from very different places.
Or if
they're working in a place
we want to get
to the volatiles,
it might only be a few samples,
but because we have to do
a really detailed, focused
job to be able
to get that back
and preserve it.
So that's
you know,
that's a great question.
I totally understand
the question
and I'm not trying to avoid it.
But that's kind of
how we think about it is
is we think of more about
the mass we bring back
and then how best to
use that mass to address
the questions,
the objectives that we have on
any given mission.
Yeah,
all the samples
are also very different.
So if you think about it,
you know,
the astronauts can pick up
like big chunks of rocks
or they can take core samples
just like we talked about.
You know, today
here it can take
like the just
scrapes of the surface.
And so it really is driven by
what kind of science question
you want us to want to answer.
And that will also drive
what type of samples to collect
and then and then, as Jake
explained, how much mass
you want for those samples.
And so
there's there's
a lot of discussion
going on between
all of the different groups
and scientists and engineers
Yeah,
hopefully we'll bring that.
Yes.
I think we all agree.
Have a question about
a dash on Twitter
asks,
doesn't the oxygen and nitrogen
in our atmosphere
react with the samples
when they're opened
from the vacuum container?
That's a very good question.
And the answer is yes.
If we would take
the vacuum container
and just pop the lid open here,
it would totally
interact and react.
And there's
also water in our atmosphere.
So, you know,
that would interact.
And that's why
we don't do that.
We have these special cabinets
in the Apollo lab,
and they're filled
with nitrogen atmosphere.
So it's just nitrogen,
which is inert.
So it doesn't like
to react with anything.
And so that's why we open
the vacuum
sealed container in in there
so that it cannot react
with anything
and it stays asked
pristine as possible.
Yeah.
You can see me
brushing off some of the excess
soil away there.
And so that's the
very first picture
that was ever taken
from this particular core.
Once we had it opened, that was
on Monday this week. So
and so much on
YouTube asked,
was this sample spoiled?
Is it like an earth?
And did it contain
any other organic matter?
It's a very good question.
So part of the answer program
is to look at the soil
and we call it soil
which I guess
is not quite correct.
On Earth soil,
the rich soil is meant for
dirt that has
organic material in it.
We don't really have that
on the moon.
The correct term
would be of regolith,
which is like,
you know,
the finely pulverized
layer of the lunar
surface, basically.
And within the team,
there are people
that look at the organic
compounds
or getting building blocks,
so to speak,
and whether they can detect any
in this lunar soil,
that's very, very hard to do
because the moon
doesn't have an atmosphere.
And so the solar radiation
is basically
sterilizing everything
and there's always
the chance of that.
We we are contaminating
the sample potentially,
you know,
even if we try to have it
in a very pristine environment
with nitrogen atmosphere.
And so this particular
study from NASA
is very important
for these researchers
to look at what they can find
And so when we are sending them
samples
from this particular corner,
we're also sending them
something that's called
a witness foil.
So when we open the sample,
we are also opening
a baked out aluminum foil
that sits in the cabinet
that could collect
any potential contamination
that comes
from Earth, basically.
And so then they can compare
there again,
except they find on the foil
to the organic compounds
they find in the
in the lunar soil
and then really understand
further what they're seeing
is actually from the moon
or what
they're seeing is from Earth
that got in the cabinet somehow
Debbie Schultz on Facebook us.
Has any of the moon
dust in exposed atmosphere?
And it's so
I'm sorry,
I kind of broke up there.
Can you say the question again?
Yeah, of course.
Has any of the moon
dust been
exposed to Earth's atmosphere?
And if so, does it change
So when researchers
and scientists
request lunar samples
sometime
say that
they want to do measurements
in which they have
to open the sample
and put it inside
an instrument, for example.
So when we allocate them
the samples,
we put them in containers
and we fill them in Teflon
we actually sent them out.
But then
in their lab,
they will actually open
the Teflon back.
The nitrogen
atmosphere escapes,
and then they will open
the little containers
and pour the soil out
onto a surface
and then they can analyze it.
And so,
yes, soil definitely
has been exposed
through research
to Earth atmosphere
and I
don't know
how that
would change the soil
over time.
If you have it exposed
long term
in Earth's atmosphere,
you know,
it could maybe change slightly
just because we have water
in our atmosphere
and so that can interact
with iron
and maybe form
a little bit of rust.
But I don't think
that it changes
a lot over time in general.
And so the last question
I have for you
is one of my own.
What advice
would you give to someone
aspiring to get involved
with NASA's sample
curation program?
Well, the ultimate missions
I'm going to like take that
first one on something.
Okay. I'll take it first.
I'll go first.
Yeah,
that's a wonderful question.
And I love this question.
You know,
the way
I like to answer this question
is, first of all,
figure out what you like to do.
What really motivates you
to get out of bed
in the morning?
What are you excited about
when you wake up?
Because I can
almost guarantee you
whatever that is.
NASA has people that do that.
So think about that.
You know,
try not necessarily
to be exactly what you think
NASA needs today.
It's more about what
NASA's going
to need to do in the future,
how, you know,
just like this
Apollo 50
or the sample from 50 years ago
from Apollo is a great example.
If we had only ever tried to
build instruments
the way they were back then,
we wouldn't have even needed
to preserve a sample this time.
But it's all the creativity,
everything we've learned
in 50 years
that has put us in a position
to do this
all the engineers,
all the scientists,
all the folks
who think about that.
They're the ones who really
enabled us to do
what we're doing now.
Artemus is just this
exciting, complicated solution
to a really difficult problem
going to the South
Pole of the moon
to collect samples,
make observations.
I can all but guarantee you
that we need
such a diverse
group of folks
to work on these problems.
So, you know, that said,
you know,
understanding math, science
and engineering, you know,
those are really key
things here.
But we we're
going to have to work
with partners
so, you know, understanding
how to talk
to our international partners.
So overcoming
language barriers, you know,
we need help
communicating there.
There's just so many
different ways
that you could end up
working for NASA.
It's really hard to say.
I'm a geologist.
I study geology for
my whole way through school.
I got a Ph.D.
and then,
you know,
now I work in a community
that's almost all engineers.
So now my job is to communicate
with people like Julianna,
who still do the science
all the time.
And, you know,
so you never know
where your path is
going to lead.
So find something
you really like
and start learning
how that fits into
or maybe solves
a problem down the road for us,
because that's
what we really need.
Yeah. Yeah.
My answer is
it's pretty similar to what
Jake just said.
You know,
if you figure out
what you're really
passionate about
and that can
then be your driving force
and because you're passionate
and excited about it,
that automated
means that you're
also going to be good at it
because that's
what you want to do, right?
And so once
you figure that out,
there are
so many ways to get involved.
Also with curation
and processing these samples.
I also have
a geology background,
but my geology background
started with Earth,
so I studied Earth.
And then when I got a Ph.D.
after that,
that was still Earth related,
I switched fields
and then became
a planetary
scientist afterwards.
And so you know,
if you go to school
and even to university
and you're not exactly sure
where your feet are,
what you want to do
just because you started out in
one field doesn't mean
that you cannot end up
in a different feel you know?
And so there are so
many opportunities,
and that ranges from geologists
to engineers to
to medical people.
You know,
we need to understand
what the dust
really does to the body.
The human body.
So once the astronauts
are on the on the surface,
artists and outreach people,
you know,
all of everybody
is really important
for these missions.
And because Artemis
is a plan to actually
stay on the lunar surface,
you know,
there are so many years to come
and I get so excited about it
when I think about our kids
read like
they will grow up with Artemus
and they get to
maybe even go to the moon
and like
look at these samples
that are being brought back.
And so that's all really,
really exciting.
And so just,
you know,
keep pushing
and you'll get there
well, that is all
we have time for today.
Juliana, Jake,
thank you so much
for joining us and answering
so many questions
from everyone online.
You're very welcome.
This was a lot of fun.
Yeah, I'm
glad people have so
many questions.
This is
this is what it's all about.
And thank you
to everyone online
for participating
in today's episode
to stay updated on
all the science plans
for the moon,
follow NASA's
moon on Facebook and Twitter.
You can also visit
NASA.gov Slash Moon
for the latest news.
NASA's plans
to send science, technology
and humans to the moon
with the Awesomeness program
and the first
launch of the rocket
that will send humans
to the moon happens this year.
And so for updates,
follow NASA's
Artemus on Facebook
and Twitter.
Thank you and see
you next time.