- Five, four, three, two, one.
[upbeat exciting music]
[aircraft whistles]
- Hey, what's up, everybody?
Welcome, welcome, welcome back to NASA in Silicon Valley Live.
If this is your first time with the show,
NASA in Silicon Valley Live
is a conversational show out of NASA's Ames Research Center
where we talk about all the nerdy NASA news
you need to know about.
I am your host today, Abby Tabor,
and I have with me
the extraordinary Danielle Carmichael.
- Hi, everybody,
I am your cohost, Danielle Carmichael,
and it is great to be back.
If you don't know, we are simultaneously live
on Twitch, YouTube, Facebook, and Periscope.
But if you want to participate in the chat
and ask our guests some questions,
there's only one place to do that,
and that's www.twitch.tv/nasa.
- Okay, so speaking of NASA news,
we have a really big announcement to make today.
Are you guys ready?
Are you ready? - Yeah!
- Okay, so the news is that we are
returning astronauts to the moon,
and this is really exciting,
so we have for you today two of our experts
who are gonna talk about some of the plans
that NASA has for returning to the moon.
So let me introduce you to Tony and Kimberly.
So why don't you two tell the audience
who you are, a little bit about yourselves?
Kimberly?
- I'm Kimberly Ennico Smith.
I'm a research astrophysicist here
at NASA Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley,
and I work on space missions.
- Fabulous, thanks.
- I'm Tony Colaprete.
I'm also here at NASA Ames Research Center.
I'm a planetary scientist and work on space instruments,
space missions, things like that.
- All right. - Mm-hmm.
- I work on instruments too, so all things space.
- We do a lot of similar stuff.
- Yeah, we spend a lot of time in clean rooms...
- Mm-hmm. - Laboratories.
- Vibe chambers, thermal-vac chambers.
But not inside, but... - Not inside.
- No, no, no.
- You don't undergo vacuum tests.
- Not on purpose, yeah. - All right, cool.
- So let's start with the basics
of returning humans to the moon.
When's this gonna happen?
- You know, the clock, I think,
up in front says something, right, yeah?
- Yes, yes.
- So quick do the math: in 1,656 days.
- Exactly. - 8 hours, 46 minutes.
- To be precise, all right, yeah.
- Counting in leap years. - Exactly.
This is not the Doomsday Clock. [laughter]
This new clock of ours is counting down the days
until the year 2024,
which is when the first woman and the next person,
perhaps it's a man,
perhaps a woman, will set foot on the moon, right?
- That's right. - That's right.
- It'll be a historic moment.
- Exactly. - Yeah.
- So let's talk about this mission,
let everyone know what it's called, to start us off.
- Well, we're calling it Artemis.
- Right, right, right, but who is she?
- So who--like, why Artemis?
Like, what's so significant about that name?
- Well, if you know your Greek mythology...
- Which I do.
- Not your Latin mythology,
'cause we are solely talking Greek mythology.
Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo.
- That is appropriate. - Perfect.
- Yeah, you see the connection? Very smart, huh?
- For those who know about the Apollo program,
that's when we did send the first humans
to set foot on the moon.
- Right. - Exactly.
- So the next are going onto the Artemis mission.
- And I might add that when I was in fifth grade,
we did Greek mythology and my goddess was Artemis.
- No way.
- I'm pretty sure that played into
the choice of the name for the mission.
- Abby, it was your destiny.
- It was. - That's right. That's right.
- Very excited for this. So why the moon?
What is so exciting for a couple of scientists
about going back to the moon?
- Oh, boy, where to start?
The moon is a spectacular place.
It's our nearest neighbor
It's a treasure trove of science, of exploration.
It's a place where we can learn about
the history of the Earth and our solar system.
It's also really a launching pad in terms
of our exploration beyond Earth.
There's resources there we can utilize to explore,
but there's also just the opportunity
to test our abilities, our technologies,
our processes for extended missions
beyond the moon to Mars, for example.
That's the ultimate destination, beyond the moon right now
but even beyond that to asteroids and other places.
- Wow.
So it's a huge sandbox, if you will,
to really learn in and demonstrate
what we can do to explore.
- Yeah, yeah. - Well said.
- Yeah, and also, looking at just the moon itself,
we know a lot about it,
but we've not really visited a fraction of the surface
or even the environment of the moon,
so there's a lot of mystery still yet to be uncovered
just on the surface and underneath the surface.
- Okay. - And, yeah, absolutely.
- And, you know, we mentioned the Apollo program.
We've been there robotically.
We have a robot spacecraft orbiting it now.
But we've only barely scratched the surface
in terms of the amount of area we've explored on the moon.
There's so much more to learn.
- I imagine. Awesome. All right.
So you are anxiously anticipating...
- Very. - 1,656 days from now.
[laughter]
You'll be watching that clock closely, I guess.
- Yes. - All right, so tell us a little
bit more specifically where are we sending astronauts in 2024?
- Well, this is what I was gonna actually just say was,
what's really, really exciting is,
we are going where we've never been before
and that's to one of the poles of the moon
and very specifically the south pole of the moon,
which is my favorite pole. - It is?
- If you have to have a favorite pole,
that's my favorite pole. - Well, who doesn't?
[laughs] - Yeah, right, exactly.
And it's an incredible place,
and we can talk about that as we go,
but it's full of spectacular topography,
moving shadows, extreme temperatures.
It's unlike anywhere we've ever
visited before in the solar system.
- And we are gonna talk all about that later on.
I'm excited for that.
But you mentioned resources.
Now, there is water there, isn't there?
- Uh, yes.
- Yes, you confirm the true statement.
Okay, so why is that so important?
Obviously, I know, humans need water to survive,
but what do you see us using that for?
Lots of other purposes, right? - Yeah.
Well, water is key in the--
well, water, it's so important for two different reasons.
One, it's incredibly scientifically interesting,
and understanding the water
that we now know exists on the moon is really important
to understanding the processes that have acted on the moon
and the Earth over the last several billion years.
- Oh, wow. - Yeah.
And I like to think of the ice at the poles
as almost like ice cores here on Earth.
If we can examine that water ice,
we can actually look back
into the history of the solar system.
But also just as important, it is a valuable resource,
and as we probably all know,
water contains two hydrogen and an oxygen atom.
- Mm-hmm. - Right.
- And hydrogen and oxygen are exactly
the ingredients that go into rocket fuel.
And rather than spending lots of rocket fuel
to bring rocket fuel into space,
which is what we do now... - Right.
- It'd be great if we could actually find a resource
and produce rocket fuel outside the gravity well of Earth.
That would not only make things more affordable.
It actually could be enabling of new architectures
for exploring Mars and beyond. - Yeah, wow.
- And then the oxygen itself is what we breathe.
- Yeah. - Of course, yeah.
- And the techniques and the approach
to how we excavate water on the moon
is applicable to even doing it on Mars,
so if you're looking for
long-term human presence on other worlds
and truly becoming an interplanetary species,
we can be creating the oxygen that we breathe
in the habitats in which we're living in off world.
- Wow, it's amazing that we're actually talking about
that, you know, as a future reality,
not just a plot line to a story.
- That's so exciting. - Yeah.
- So I actually have a couple of shout-outs.
So Super Snail says
that the Earth-and-moon shirt is awesome.
- [claps] Nice.
- And also SPACETV.NET said,
"It's great to see Tony and Kimberly again."
- Yay! - We have fans.
- Longtime fans. - Got some fans.
- Outstanding. - Wow.
- All right. - [laughs]
- Do you have any questions yet, Danielle, or should we...
- I do.
So Moon--moamstripes wants to know,
like, "What's the end long-term goal
of the Artemis mission?"
Because we've been talking it up, but...
- Yeah, that's a great question. You wanna take that?
- Oh, yeah.
So Artemis is a term to describe a whole series
of missions to the lunar surface
and using an orbital tugboat interplanetary spaceship
called the Gateway.
It's a big architecture, but in the long-term,
opening it up with many partners along on this journey,
we have a sustainable presence on the moon where we are,
you know, providing the infrastructure
for us to stay there,
for building materials to creating the rocket fuel
to exploring areas that we've never been before, you know,
actually going into the depths of craters
that we haven't explored yet
and pieces of the moon we don't see,
so that long-term presence on the moon,
but while we're using those techniques,
those become applicable forward to that next step.
You know, we're living off Earth on another world
in a harsh environment
and learning to deal with those challenges
and solving those challenges.
And once we've got that under our belt and we've understood
our neighborhood background-- our backyard,
we can take that easily to Mars.
- Yeah. - So cool.
I see lots of other great questions,
but I know that some of them we're going to answer
in the next few minutes, so let's keep going.
I just want to touch back on the water a little bit.
How much are we actually talking about?
I know you two have worked together
on a past mission that found some water
on the south pole of the moon. - Yeah.
- Can you tell us a little bit about that?
- That was launched ten years ago yesterday.
- Yesterday! - Yay!
- Happy anniversary! - Happy ten years.
- Thank you. [laughter]
And the mission we launched with, LRO,
the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter,
is still in orbit around the moon,
still collecting data
and making fantastic maps of the lunar surface,
which actually is really enabling of Artemis.
It's what's making it able to go forward.
- Awesome, yeah. - Yeah, so the...
Yeah, Kim and I were both part of the LCROSS mission,
which was a mission that crashed a spent upper stage of a rocket
into a permanently shadowed crater
at the south pole of the moon,
and the purpose was to understand the nature
of hydrogen we had measured there prior
with a different mission and saw an excess of this hydrogen.
We didn't know if the hydrogen was water
or just solo protons,
which is hydrogen atoms trapped in the soil or what.
And our job was to actually understand it to see
if it could potentially be a resource,
so it was a very targeted mission.
- See what that water--
- So I actually want to back up a little bit.
Like, what is a permanently shadowed crater?
- Good question.
- Doesn't everybody know what a permanent shadowed crater--no.
- Well, with the tilt of the moon
and the illumination of the sun,
there are places at both poles of the moon
where the extreme topography,
the rims of the craters of the moon,
the sun does not get above those rims.
So the basins of those craters are in permanent shadow,
and they have been in permanent shadow
for, you know, 4 billion years.
- Wow.
- And being in the shadow, if you're out on a hot day
and you go underneath the shadow of a tree,
you'll notice that things get a little cooler.
Well, and if you're in
a permanently shadowed place on the moon,
things get really, really cold. - Really cold.
- So what was interesting,
Tony was mentioning this orbiter mission
that had found hydrogen.
It was concentrated at the poles,
and there was a correlation
with the permanently shadowed craters.
So there was this connection
between lots of amounts of hydrogen
in very cold places that had never seen sunlight.
- And, actually, it was theorized
that these craters would have cold bottoms
and could hold water as early as 1961...
- Oh, really?
- When we first were really understanding the topography,
even before the Apollo program
really got, you know, off and running.
And so it wasn't, though, until ten years ago
we verified the form of that hydrogen
in one of these cold craters as water ice.
- Wow. - Okay.
- So let's review.
Now, that was LCROSS, which is the Lunar Crater...
- Lunar CRater Observation and Sensing Satellite.
- Yes, all right, okay. - Okay.
- And we hit a crater at the lunar south pole.
That's why the south pole is Tony's favorite.
- Yeah, yeah. - Right, right, okay.
- And where the future astronauts will be landing.
- Exactly. - Right, okay.
And you remember how much water LCROSS saw?
- Yeah, so LCROSS was a point measurement, right.
It made a crater about 35 meters across,
half a football field or so across.
And so, yeah, pretty big hole.
- We'll never see it. It's in the dark.
- Yeah. We took pictures of it.
- I know. - We saw it.
- We saw it with a thermal camera.
But it brought ejecta up into sunlight
so we could examine it, and as Kim said--
- Threw the soil up when it smashed into the surface.
- Out of the shadow until it eventually reaches sunlight,
and I always like to think about that.
That soil hadn't seen sunlight in billions of years.
- That's crazy. - Yeah.
In just the dirt we threw up into the cloud--
or into the sun, sorry--we saw about 152 gallons of water.
- Okay. - Okay.
- And if you take that measurement
and all the other measurements we have of hydrogen
at the poles and make some assumptions about
how it's distributed with depth,
we're talking 10 million, potentially
up to 100 million tons, metric tons, of water ice.
- That's a lot of water ice.
- It's a lot. - I think so.
- It would make a big ice cube.
I think Kim and I were talking beforehand,
and it was about a hundred-- - 30.
130 meters. - 130-meter-on-a-side ice cube.
- Yeah, like a football stadium,
football stadium sized-- - Ice cube for the 10 million.
Yeah. - Yeah.
- Important science there. - Oh, it is.
- How big of an ice cube is that?
- The ice cube.
And, yeah, to be clear, none of this
is flowing liquid water.
This is crystals of-- - All ice.
And the temperatures are about minus 200
to minus 240 or so below zero centigrade.
- And this was the first time we've sampled
the bottom of a permanently shadowed crater.
I mean, since then, this experiment
hasn't been repeated, and not only did we find water,
but there was a bunch of other things
that were excavated as well.
We found gold, mercury, argon, carbon monoxide,
and so it's opening up these questions
when we're gonna have humans and robots going to the poles,
the south pole of the moon, we're gonna get the boots
on ground, the wheels on ground and really understand
what's there because we've never been there before.
We just have this, you know, simple impactor experiment
that opened more questions than it answered.
But it answered one particular one:
the hydrogen is definitely in the form of water ice
and enough such that there is
the resources to enable the exploration.
- How exciting.
- Yeah, another way to put in perspective is,
LCROSS is about 5% by weight water in the dirt,
regular lunar dirt.
For comparison, that's about what you have in the Sahara.
- Oh, okay.
- Yeah, to give you a feel for it.
- So the wettest places on the moon
is as wet as the driest places on Earth.
- Okay.
- That's something. It's the moon.
- We're making a comparison to the Earth, yeah.
- But if you think about it,
that's the engineering challenge ahead
that we will solve to excavate it
'cause we know it's there and we can extract--
you know, water has been extracted from very dry places.
- Yes, yeah, that can be done.
- It can be. - And we will do it.
How exciting, awesome.
So I want to know then what's next.
Okay, we know that people will get there.
We're gonna send people there. Let's talk about how.
So what's the rockets going to take people
on the Artemis missions to the moon?
Who wants to take that?
- Space Launch System. - That's it, the SLS?
Yeah, we have an animation, I think, of it too.
- That's right, yes.
- There it is, largest rocket ever built.
And it's to bring humans
not only to the moon but actually beyond too.
It carries them in a capsule that's on the very tip of that
that just went past the frame called the Orion capsule,
very small capsule up there.
But that capsule, you'll see in a little bit here--
- Yeah, yeah, we have an animation for that
after the SLS.
- It is very powerful.
In fact, it's designed to take an incredible amount
of material to, you know, deep space.
So it is servicing the moon and Mars
and also elsewhere.
I mean, it also has amazing commercial spin-offs as well
'cause you can actually put up replacements
of, say, the GPS satellites in a single SLS launch rocket.
It has a huge capacity,
and it could transform the way
we do other types of things in the agency,
so it's one of many uses of a large rocket
that, you know, can be utilized.
- Oh, awesome. - That's pretty awesome.
- It is.
- Danielle, you jump in whenever you have to
with a question, but otherwise,
we're gonna keep talking about--
so that was SLS, the rocket,
and Tony pointed out the capsule, yeah.
So let's see the Orion capsule animation,
and tell us a little bit about--
- So Orion is-- there it is--
the capsule that will bring the astronauts
wherever they're gonna go,
and this, indeed, can go not just to the moon
but also beyond to Mars.
And after, you know, a lot of analysis and study,
it was eventually concluded that
the Apollo shape, the blunt nose reentry system
that Apollo used, is still the best way to go forward.
- I love that.
- However, look how roomy--if you're looking at this video,
look how roomy this one is
compared to the Apollo capsule.
- Is it really? Yeah?
- Has anyone seen the Apollo 11 documentary
that's out in the movie theaters?
You get a feel for how tight Apollo is.
- It sits four,
and it's a lot more powerful in every single way,
from information systems, guidance, payload, everything.
And it's meant to be able to carry humans
a longer distance way beyond the moon.
So it really is Apollo on steroids, I like to say, yeah.
- That's awesome. I love that it has kept
some of the same design as Apollo.
Way to go, Apollo engineers. You knew what you were doing.
- They solved some pretty tough challenges
and then made it happen, so we know we can do this.
- So I actually have a question from Digital-donger
who wants to know,
"Are you using specifically any Apollo-era research
or tech on the quest to return back to the moon?"
- Well, the shape that I just mentioned
really was derived originally through the Apollo program.
The shape of that capsule is very critical
to enabling the reentry.
And this capsule is meant to reenter, parachute,
and splash down in the ocean
just like the Apollo program did.
- And speaking of reentry, here at NASA Ames,
we develop and test the thermal reentry materials.
And for the Apollo program,
there's a chemical compound called Avcoat.
- Use it for heat shields, right?
- The heat shields, for the heat shields,
for that reentry through the atmosphere,
and they would ablate,
so they would absorb the heat and then, you know,
protect the capsule so it could safely return.
To preparation for Orion, the engineers looked at Avcoat
and modified chemistry of that and did a lot of the testing,
so there is a direct connection
even with materials that were used during Apollo.
- That's pretty cool.
- And just modified for the shape of the capsule
and to support even reentry from further destinations.
Say you're coming back from an asteroid
or say you're coming back from Mars orbit
or something like that.
- Speeds can be higher, so... - Speeds can be different.
So it's smarter all around.
- I love that, excellent.
And I love these Apollo connections,
but then on the flip side,
how is the Artemis program different from Apollo?
- Why don't you take this? - Sure.
Well, an element that I mentioned briefly--
sorry about the spoilers... [laughter]
Is actually one of the cooler parts of the Artemis program.
It's this object called the Gateway.
And the Gateway is our first interplanetary spaceship
and this is something that NASA has never really built before
and that's why, in a sense, it's exciting.
I mean, this space module, sometimes we call it spaceship,
will be in lunar orbit, and it will provide the way
to access all different parts of the moon.
It's also going to be crewed
but not 100% of the time, so it has to be autonomous,
so it will have a lot of autonomy in it.
And it also would be providing a way to be a space laboratory,
so we can put experiments on board
for understanding biology outside our magnetosphere.
It also can dock with all the different commercial
and international partners.
It has an open architecture.
The port designs are gonna be available for anyone
who wants to build things that connect to it.
The Apollo will connect--Apollo--
[laughter] Orion will connect to it.
Landers will connect to it, service modules,
but it has the ability to change its orbit,
so it can also become this interplanetary tugboat,
'cause it can move things around
and first enable travel.
I mean, it's the transportation backbone
for Mars exploration.
- Oh, wow, okay.
And, again, this is Gateway, right?
- This is Gateway. It's called Gateway.
And we're going to-- this spaceship will--
Oh, and we have an animation showing of this orbit
in which the Gateway for the lunar exploration
will have really is enabling.
And this is the part of the Artemis program that's very--
this is--Apollo didn't do this.
Apollo took everything with them and everything came back.
So Artemis is building up a sustainable presence,
and this Gateway is key to that.
- Yeah, and one part that I'd like to emphasize
that Kim mentioned that is really different from Apollo
is this open architecture aspect is,
NASA's not doing this alone,
and it's even beyond what we did
for the International Space Station,
where we had lots of other government agencies involved.
There is a huge involvement
from the private commercial sector
that's involved in all parts of this.
So this Artemis program and lunar exploration going forward
has got a commercial element,
a private sector commercial element--
a lot of people call it new space--
Part of it that didn't exist during Apollo.
So we are really, I think, at the dawn of a new age
of exploration in space beyond LEO.
- Low Earth orbit. - Low Earth orbit, sorry.
- Going further out, yeah.
- And also, as Tony was saying about,
it's sort of a space economy.
You have a lot of partners.
We're on the verge of-- you know, if you were
to go back in time and ask the Wright Brothers
to look at modern-day today and see that, oh, I can fly
from place to place on this planet
using an airplane that they did theirs...
Or go back and talk to Alexander Graham Bell,
who invented the telephone, and we all look
at using our smartphones to communicate.
We have no clue what the future of space will be
when we involve the commercial aspect of it.
- Yep. - Oh, wow.
- It is really unbounded future.
- Wow. - Yes.
- That's monumental. - Yeah.
- How exciting.
- This is why it's different than Apollo.
- Right, you ask a simple question and you get...
- A pretty profound answer.
- And from the science point of view,
Tony and I are real excited about the science,
but it has a lot of--it's much bigger than the science too.
- And it'll enable a lot of that science and we'll be able
to do things we could never have done before, yeah, yeah.
- Wow, okay. - How long? How long?
[laughter] - 1,656 days.
- Well, let's move into our rapid-fire section,
so I'm not gonna give any usernames,
but I'm just gonna go ahead and just spit out some questions.
- Rapidly fire questions.
- And we have to rapidly answer?
- Yes.
- First one: what is the long-term effect
of the human body on the moon?
- Ooh.
- Long-term effect of the human body on the moon
or the environment on the human body?
- Oh, I understand environment on the human body.
- So it goes both ways, though,
and that's actually a really interesting question
from a science standpoint, in particular,
These cold areas in the craters
are what are called cold traps.
They're so cold,
any molecules that get in there freeze out.
So every time we've gone to the moon and the astronauts
vented water or vented other things or outgassed--
outgassed to means subliming off of equipment--
those molecules, some of those molecules
very likely found their ways to the poles of the moon
and froze out and they're there now forever
until a meteorite might release them.
Once we go exploring, not just we NASA but the world,
we will bring more and more of these volatiles
and other materials to the moon
that will be trapped in the cold trap,
so if you're trying to understand
some pristine environments to understand the history,
the last 3 billion years,
you want to do it in a way that you can
understand what contaminants you've brought there yourself.
- Yes. - Okay.
- And we actually-- we, NASA Ames,
flew a mission not long ago called LADEE,
the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer,
and its principal purpose was actually to understand
the lunar atmosphere, the exosphere,
in its pristine state with the anticipation
that more and more countries
and commercial peoples would be going to the moon.
And so we wanted to get kind of a background
before we started impacting the moon.
- Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, the baseline before we touched it.
- Right, right. - Yeah, interesting.
- From a impact on the human body,
radiation is one of the principal concerns,
and there is a lot of very clever solutions
being looked at in terms of shielding.
And we talk about water as a resource.
There's lots of other resources at the moon,
especially at the poles,
including lighting for solar power but also the dirt itself.
The regolith can be an excellent insulator.
- Oh, okay.
So as Kimberly was talking about,
living off the land involves using whatever you have,
whatever you have on hand, to make your situation better.
Yeah. - Excellent.
- Okay, next question:
how many launches until the first base is set up?
- Hmm.
- That's a good question.
- Well, we're not concerned about a base.
So there's two faces to the Artemis.
The one is the return of the first humans,
and that's the 2024 milestone,
and then there's a later milestone in 2028
where we have a more established presence there.
Prior to the first humans going on the moon,
we'll have the first launch of Artemis, Artemis 1,
which will not have humans on board,
but it will carry space satellites
and robots and the like.
Some will go to deep space,
A second Artemis mission will actually go to the moon
or an orbit around the moon.
It's on that third launch of the SLS that
we would be carrying humans, and that's the 2024 milestone.
So we should see a sequence of incremental steps
towards proving out the new launch system
and the new capabilities.
In addition, the first module of the Gateway,
which is the solar propulsion element,
which is a really cool technology advancement,
we've never seen an engine like this on a spaceship before.
That's going to be launched by a commercial rocket,
and so that's--you know, we're gonna be having
all these different types of infrastructures
getting us--all part of the Artemis program.
- And that really brings up an important point.
It's not a "it will be done done by this date."
It will be continuous development and build up
to reach an eventual sustained presence.
And so the exact date when it becomes a base
or whatever you want to call it is--
- Moon Village. - Moon Village.
- Moon City. - Moon Town.
We'll call it Moon Town. [laughter]
- A community. - A community on the moon.
When that exactly happens is kind of ill-defined
because it's really building up of capabilities over time.
There will be longer and longer stays as they move
through these various phases, as Kimberly mentioned,
for the astronauts on the surface, so...
- Okay, so we have time for two short questions, I hope.
So how long is this Gateway gonna be
inhabited by astronauts when it's finished?
- That's a good question. I mean, it's variable.
The key point is that that spaceship
needs to be able to operate without humans
because there will periods in which humans aren't on board.
So don't know the exact fraction of it,
but it's gonna have two modes:
when the humans are onboard and when they're not.
- Yeah, I've heard numbers up to 30 days at a time,
so they're not gonna be up there for a year
like we do on the Space Station.
They'll go up there
and then come back in a month or two,
and so that's to Kimberly's point is, a lot of the time,
you'll have to have robots running the house.
- Okay, so last question:
someone wants to know, like,
what's the coolest thing about Gateway?
- [chuckles]
- I've heard you vote
for this power propulsion element before.
- I call it the tugboat, its electric propulsion system,
and it's at a power level we've never built before.
- Really? - And what's neat is,
it allows it to change its orbit around the moon,
so it is really a spaceship.
It's not just going in an orbit.
It can actually steer
this entire Space Station-sized kind of thing in space.
- Okay.
- And then, ultimately, it's the kind of engine
that's gonna be used to bring us to Mars
and to asteroids and to wherever else, so...
You know, it's a slow ride, slow acceleration.
In acceleration, it's slow, but it's powerful.
It allows you to get to the kinds of velocities
with a lot of mass
that you need to do interplanetary travel.
- And I like the open architecture,
'cause I don't think all the engineers
have figured out all the wonderful uses of Gateway.
- Mm-hmm, not yet.
- 'Cause it's a little-- I mean, it's gonna be
designed for a certain purpose and will achieve
those purposes, allowing the docking of multiple vehicles
from different countries and companies,
allowing astronauts to stay for periods of days, months,
being in constant communication with the Earth,
being in communication with the surface of the moon,
being able to deliver things
to the surface of the moon at different latitudes.
It is very versatile.
But it could also be a test-bed
for testing other types of vehicles
that actually might be made in space someday
and then launch them from there.
I mean, it has a lifetime that will keep giving.
We're only thinking about how to,
you know, do that first step,
the first step in the return to the moon,
the forward to the moon part,
but there's a lot more that it can give.
- Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.
You both keep mentioning learning at the moon
and then we'll go on and, you know,
SLS could take us to Mars.
Let's talk really quickly a little bit about Mars.
What are some favorite fun facts
about Mars that you can share with us?
- Okay, well, we have a picture of Mars
to cue people in on what Mars looks like.
It's the fourth planet around the sun.
It's a red planet.
The red is primarily due to iron
in the rocks on the surface of Mars.
Mars has polar caps.
It has--you know, it's one of the other bodies
besides the Earth that has frozen ice.
It's water ice and carbon dioxide ice at the poles.
- Cool.
- It has an atmosphere,
but its atmosphere is different than Earth's.
It's primarily made of carbon dioxide,
whereas our atmosphere is nitrogen-based.
And if you-- Earth is the third planet,
and Mars is the fourth planet.
We're both circling around the sun.
If you imagine racetracks, cars on a racetrack.
So our closest distance the Earth and Mars
is about 34 million miles, and that happens every 26 months.
Otherwise, we're doing laps.
- Right, they're moving at different speeds
around the racetrack, right?
- Different speeds around the racetrack.
So this is a reason why, when we launch our, you know,
robots to Mars and, in the future,
the crewed missions to Mars, taking advantage of the close--
that 26-month period of alignment.
Helps shorten the distance,
'cause even at that shortest distance,
the trip is still about six to nine months.
Still a long way to get to Mars.
- You want to take advantage of that.
[laughter] - Yeah, yeah.
- Excellent, all right.
And the moon, you say, is gonna help us practice
for what we might do when we reach Mars, right?
- Yeah, everything--
So much of what we will be doing on the moon
is extensible to Mars, and everything from the kinds
of tools we use to the procedures
and processes and the technologies,
learning to really work and build and construct
in different environments that the moon and Mars,
everything from gravity to little to no atmosphere,
et cetera, is really important.
And bringing it back to water.
As Kimberly mentioned, Mars has got water.
We've known that for a while.
It's got a lot more water than the moon,
but that is one of the key connections
between the moon and Mars.
As we learn to utilize water on the moon,
everything from locating it, excavating it,
processing it, all of that can be carried over and applied
to how we do that on Mars, which we want to do.
We want to... [clears throat]
excuse me--live off the land at Mars too.
We don't want to bring everything with us
to Mars eventually.
We will, of course, the first few times, but you can't.
It's too far away. - All right.
- Let's just say I was mentioning earlier is,
once we're really comfortable with this whole approach
on excavating the water and processing the water
and transferring it to rocket fuel
or oxygen or other utilizations,
'cause water can be used in many different ways,
that's a totally applicable system for Mars,
you know, directly.
And also most likely there'll be wonderful spin-offs
that can be used back here on Earth.
I mean, anything to do with things in a closed system
is usually very power conscious,
You're not using a lot of energy.
- Recycling a lot of stuff. - Recycling a lot of things.
We'll have, you know, very improved technology
that who knows what we're gonna discover.
- Actually, I have a question from the chat.
Looks like King Gold Boy Gamer wants to know,
like, when we actually gonna go to Mars?
- Mm.
- I don't know if you guys know the precise date.
- I don't know the precise date off the top of my head.
But it would be, you know, a couple decades beyond.
- It's still a ways out,
so first we're going to the moon.
We're gonna practice.
We're gonna learn to excavate water
and process it and all of that.
- And also the most fragile part
in this whole amazing exploration adventure
is the human body.
The human body, outside the magnetosphere,
you know, we've had only 24 individuals
who have been outside of that.
We are now gonna have the ability
to really study biology
and how the human body is reacting to this.
This will make us totally prepared
for that long trip to Mars,
'cause a mission to the moon is three days,
and you're on the surface for weeks, months, come back.
But you're close to home.
When you go to Mars,
we're talking a two-year and how is the bod--you know,
it's like six months, nine months to get there.
You're gonna be there for a few months, and then you come back.
You want to take advantage of the close by
so you're gonna be on sort of a two-year timescale.
- Right, right.
- Just think about it, you know,
what we're going to learn to protect the human body
and, you know, enable all the infrastructure
to allow the human body to survive and thrive,
we will solve that by being on the moon.
- Yeah. - Cool.
- So tell me quickly, so I wanna know,
what's coming up then?
You know, what's in the news coming up next in the process?
So human landers will be built by NASA, by partners?
What do you guys know about that?
- I believe there was a bid that went out on the street
for companies to provide lunar landers.
and--docking with the Gateway or not.
It's a different type of architecture it can use.
But yeah.
- Yeah, and there's a variety of landers being pursued
with the commercial sector with NASA, and there are
smaller landers being built now and we've actually--
NASA just recently selected three
to be carrying NASA payloads.
- So instruments and things before people go.
- Exactly. - And it would land next year.
- Next year already? - As soon as next year.
- Whoa. - And a couple--
in the summer of '21, so 2021.
And what's really neat is,
these companies are providing NASA a delivery service.
It's not NASA telling them we need a lander like this.
It's, they're building a lander that provides a service
and selling that service then to NASA.
Here's an example of one on the screen
of one of these small commercial landers.
And these companies then have plans to increase
the scale and the scope of these landers
so they can carry more and more to the surface.
So the human landers are, as Kimberly said,
right now being discussed with commercial companies
as to who is gonna participate and build them going forward.
And it's really kind of exciting because,
again, this is a totally new paradigm.
NASA has always built the landers
with commercial companies, but they've done it
in a very much requirement-driven process.
"We need you to build this for us," right?
This is very different.
This is, "I'm buying my airline ticket
"to fly across the country.
I'm not telling you how to build your airplane," right?
- You get me there somehow.
- Exactly, and that's what we're doing now.
- And other folks can pay to use the services,
so it opens up the accessibility of the moon too.
- Okay, okay. Anybody can see--oh, sorry.
Do you have a question? - No, it's okay.
I have a question from the chat.
SPACETV.NET wants to know, "Are any of these vehicles
gonna be like the lunar roving vehicle?"
- Yeah, there's actually commercial rovers
actually being discussed too,
so NASA's working on some rovers as well, but--
- And rovers come in all shapes and sizes.
- Exactly, yep.
Robotic but also for the humans beyond 2024,
there's definitely plans for large, even pressurized rovers
that they would go in,
so way beyond what we did in the Apollo era.
- Think of the Martian, remember?
He's in the pressurized--
- But some of these commercial landers, the ones going in
the next year and a half or so, are carrying very small rovers,
5-kilogram, 10-kilogram rovers, and eventually,
those rovers will be also providing a service,
so the landers provide landing service,
and commercial rovers can provide a roving service.
So I can put my instrument on a rover that we can buy
space on rather than NASA having to build all of that.
- Okay, now, speaking of your instrument,
I know that you have a lunar-- - Very good segue.
[laughter]
- That was perfect. Thanks, Tony.
Did you bring it today? - Well, I brought part of it.
- All right, can you show us
and tell us what it's gonna do up there?
- If I don't drop it.
- So something like this is flying to the moon
in the next year or two?
- Yeah, so this was selected to fly on one of the three landers
that is going to the moon in the next couple of years
and this is-- it's called NIRVSS.
- NIRVSS.
- It's a terrible acronym, I know.
- It is, of course, an acronym.
- It's an acronym. - What does it stand for?
- Near-Infrared Volatile Spectrometer System.
And what it does is, it finds water.
That its principal purpose is to find volatiles
but especially water.
So it's a prospecting instrument.
If you think about when we look
for minerals and resources on Earth, you prospect.
You go and look.
This is what this instrument is meant to do.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Sniffing out where the water is.
- Exactly, and this is an engineering unit.
This is a unit that we used to develop the technology,
make sure we can make the measurements
and meet the goals we want to meet
and then we then test it
in the similar environments it's gonna see.
For example, has to survive
launch, landing, vacuum, radiation, et cetera.
- And we test all that, yeah. - And we test all that,
make sure it works and you see it's just
got a bunch of eyes on it.
- Yeah, I was just gonna ask, what all is going on there?
- Yeah, so what it's meant to--
an important aspect of this is,
it needs to work both in sunlight
and in darkness.
Just like Kimberly was saying, these are dark craters.
- Yeah, 'cause there's that correlation, but we--yeah.
- We have to go down there,
and we have to look at the scales we're gonna work at.
- 'Cause the data from orbit is giving us hundreds of meter
kind of footprints of where the border is,
This is gonna give us human scale,
you know, things on the meter, and that's an unknown.
You know, so we do need to-- - Exactly.
- That's exciting.
- So real quick, this little guy right here--
Can you get the nice blue shine of it there?
This is an infrared lamp. - Oh, yeah.
- And the intent of this
is to actually provide infrared light
for the other instruments so it can see in the dark.
Likewise, all of these things over here,
these little guys, those are LEDs of various colors.
So they provide illumination
from the ultraviolet to the near infrared,
for a camera system, which is right here.
This is a lens to the camera system, this black thing.
This allows us to image the area at very high resolution,
understand the chemical makeup, the mineralogy,
the morphology, and things like that.
And the last thing are the four sensors right underneath
the camera, these four right here.
This is really hard to do. It's like doing it in a mirror.
Those four there, those are thermal sensors.
It's a thermal radiometer, and what that does
is allows us to measure temperatures
of the scene we're looking at, 'cause we're interested
in not only understanding if water is there,
but we want to understand
the environment we are finding water
or not finding water, because ultimately,
we will use this data to build what is called a resource map.
On Earth, we call them a mineral map.
That's what the United States Geological Survey provides
to a company that's interested in finding minerals.
And we're gonna do this on the moon,
basically build these maps and understand their location.
This is one instrument of several
that is dedicated to do this kind of work.
- Oh, yeah, yeah, all working in tandem,
and they'll piece together a map together maybe.
- Yep, exactly. - I see. That makes sense.
- And I'm trying to convince Tony that the next iteration
of this has to be handheld by the astronauts
so we can have the astronauts go and look at it
and they're like, "Okay, time to go. That's our resource."
- Sold. Let's do it.
[laughter]
- It's on.
All right, do you have a question right now?
- Actually, I do.
So Garchos want to know
how is NASA gonna protect these rovers from lunar dust?
- Mm.
- Yeah, lunar dust is a unique beast.
- It is a beast. - Yes.
- And it really is unique in that it's only generated
because of the environment on the moon.
They generate through the impact processes.
And so the dust-- and it's never eroded.
There's no air. - There's no wind to make--
or water, flowing liquid water, to smooth things out,
so it's jagged and...
- It's jagged. It locks in place.
- It's like glass.
- And the Apollo astronauts, you know, complained about,
you know, it got into their lungs,
and it scratched their suits.
The suits were all ripped to shreds.
- Wow. - So it is--it is a beast.
It is a beast, and the way you protect--
there's a lot of ways you can protect it,
everything from electrostatic barriers they're working on,
so one nice thing about a lot of the lunar dust is,
it has a magnetic property to it.
It's got some ferric iron in it, nanophase iron,
and so you can repulse it with electric fields.
You can also develop-- - Force fields!
Force fields! - It's like "Star Trek"!
[laughter]
- And also a number of other mechanical gasket materials,
basically, things that go between bearings on wheels
and whatnot that make it very difficult for the dust
to get to the bearings, the delicate parts.
These are kind of torturous paths it has to follow.
- And we're fortunate that there's been
a couple of lunar simulants that have been made
modeled on the regolith that was brought
by the Apollo astronauts, and so companies and engineers
who are looking at wheel design and rover design,
they can test out their designs as best as possible.
I mean, obviously, it's not a one-to-one connection.
In fact, one of the big mysteries
about the permanently shadowed regions
when our LCROSS experiment that we did a decade ago,
finding water in Cabeus, it revealed that perhaps
the regolith in those permanently shadowed craters
are actually different than the regolith
that was found on the Apollo sites.
- Oh, it's different across the surface.
- So there's going to be some learning to be done.
So the engineers will do the best knowledge they have now,
using a simulant designing the reels and the excavation.
We're gonna have challenges with drills and scoops
and all that, the same thing that they would--
the beast that is the dust. - Yes.
- But we'll overcome those,
but we're gonna have to get there on the scene
at the south pole in the polar regions and go,
"Hmm, that dust is different." - Yeah.
- "That's what we're gonna do next time."
- All right. - Who knows?
- So that question foreshadowed my favorite section of the day.
You guys described the south pole as explored territory,
and you keep referencing that it's really extreme,
it's gonna be tough, so let's go through
some of those specific challenges and--
- I mean, it's like, you know,
wanting to go in the deepest mines on Earth.
- Oh, really? - And the deepest--
You know, the deepest undersea exploration.
You know, it is--
- Because it's so different from what we're used to?
Or is it really deep in that sense?
- It's really deep, so the topography is extreme.
It's completely unlike a lot of the topography
we saw with Apollo, lower latitudes.
- They landed in flat areas. - Okay, right.
- You know, nice, pristine, kind of--
- That's what I picture the moon as.
- And we'll be landing, perhaps,
in areas that are ridges that are sitting atop a crater
that looks down into a six-kilometer hole.
- Six kilometers? That's like three miles or--
- Yeah, exactly, about three miles down,
and they'll be standing on the edge of these vistas
overlooking mountains that are many miles high.
- Wow. - Into craters that are
ten miles across and three miles deep and--
- I never knew it was that extreme.
- And then the lighting conditions,
because of the low angle of the sun,
you can have shadows that are being cast
from a ridge of a crater that is hundreds of kilometers away.
- Really? - And the shadows will be
sweeping across you over timescales of hours.
And as we mentioned earlier, when you're in shadow,
your temperature drops, and so you're gonna be exper--
Of course you're in a suit... - Suit, yeah.
That's keeping you regulated, but if you think about it,
the whole lighting condition,
the whole dealing with the swing of temperatures
is gonna stress out your system, so--
- Mm-hmm, yeah, your equipment and machinery and everything.
- Your equipment, yeah. - And there are areas--
There's areas where there's permanent shadow darkness,
this point of darkness, but there's also areas that have,
what I like to say, persistent sunlight.
- Mm-hmm.
- So there are some of these peaks,
'cause they're so extreme,
that no matter what time of year it is,
it has very often sunlight at it.
So it's often at the rims
or crests of some of these ridges near these craters,
and so those are very attractive
for the reasons Kim said is you won't be getting
these deep shadows sweeping across you all that often,
and when they do,
it might just be for five, six, seven days,
as opposed to, you know, three months,
something like that, so-- so these are, uh--
- And they're great places to put your power station
- Exactly. - For your solar power.
- And have some of your infrastructure.
Again, it's sort of, you know, if you're gonna explore
and you're learning about where you're exploring,
take advantage of the gifts
that were given to you by nature.
- Exactly. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- And also, be aware of the dangers, you know?
- Yeah, of course.
- So you keep talking about those--the poles.
We actually have this really cool ani--or video
showing some light cycles at the moon's south pole.
- That's exactly right. - Yeah.
- So can you tell us what we're seeing?
This is night falling or--
- We started at a low latitude,
looking at the moon as we see the moon,
and what you saw was the sun moving
across the face of the moon.
There is no dark side of the moon.
Every side of the moon gets sunlight at some point.
- You get 14 days of sunlight, 14 days of darkness.
- We just don't see that far side.
- We just don't see that
'cause we always see the near side.
Now this--what's done is the movie's swung down,
so you're looking at the south pole of the moon
with that crater,
nice circular one right in the middle.
That's Shackleton crater.
It's almost exactly at the south pole of the moon.
It is about 15 miles across and about 4 miles deep.
And what you see are these shadows
that are sweeping across,
and it's because, again, as Kim--
Kimberly explained earlier,
the tilt of the moon on its axis is very small,
so the sun's always just hugging the horizon,
creating these shadows. - Okay.
- And you can see in some of these craters,
like the big-- Shackleton itself
and the larger ones just above it,
the floors of those craters never get sunlight.
They are in permanent shadow.
- They just stay dark.
You can just stare at a piece of the--
you know, pick out a point in the video
and look at it and you can see
over the course of the shadow pattern
what gets light or not. - Yeah.
- And then you also saw there were these rims
of the craters that got sunlight all the time,
or most of the time they stayed light.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So extreme.
So lighting conditions are extreme.
Topography is extreme.
Temperatures are extreme.
The dust we sort of know what it's made of, but maybe not.
- Right. We'll see when we get there.
- Yeah, but it could have some other benefits too.
We just have to-- we haven't explored it.
- Mm-hmm.
- And we haven't explored it with robots yet either, so--
and humans.
- Need to get somebody's boots on the ground.
- And in general we see this increase of hydrogen
at the poles, and we've seen increase
of hydration in the soils, meaning hydroxo, OH,
or water molecules bound to the soils, even in sunlight.
- Oh, really? - Yeah.
- And in increased amounts towards the poles.
So just the composition
even in the sunlight areas is gonna be different
from anything we've ever seen before.
- And that's gonna just make the modelers go crazy,
'cause we're gonna have a lot Tony's types of instruments,
you know, looking for the water on these scales,
and then we're gonna try to piece together
quite a complex puzzle. - Yeah.
- But it's a nice--it's an interesting puzzle to have.
I mean, we wouldn't be talking about water cycle on the moon.
It's only been ten years.
You know, ten years is not a long time,
but it's long enough, like, to realize
that, you know, this moon is a place that we have
full of things that we don't know what's going on.
- Mm-hmm. - So...
- It's more active than I ever pictured.
- It is. It's very active.
- And more extreme. - Especially at the poles.
Couldn't have picked a better place to go.
- Exciting. - Yeah.
- You know, speaking of that, you guys, don't forget,
if you do have any questions,
please type them into the Twitch chat.
It's www.twitch.tv/nasa.
So we're gonna move into our rapid fire section.
So Jesta578 wants to know about the NIRVSS instrument.
Is it ultrasound, IR and visual?
- Uh, it is a little bit of everything.
So I always like to say we go in with our eyes wide open
for all the reasons Kim just said,
because you don't exactly know what you're gonna see.
So it is actually combination of near infrared,
and for you geeks out there,
that's between about 1.2 and 4 microns.
Thermal infrared, that's between about 8 and 25 microns.
And ultraviolet visible,
which would run about .35 to .94 microns.
- Okay, so it's everything-- - It's ultraviolet--
Colors that are below what we can see
in terms of our visual spectrum
and energies beyond what we can see
into the thermal infrared.
And then what Tony had mentioned
is that this is the front end with the cameras,
but the infrared is gonna be connected to a spectrometer
on the back end. - Okay.
- 'Cause it's from the spectrometer
spreading the light out into different wavelengths,
and it's over the infrared that you're gonna see
the water signature or the hydroxo signature
and the minerals. - Yeah.
- And so this is a very-- it's a compact instrument
with both cameras and thermal sensors
to get the temperature, plus the spectrometer
to get the amount-- - The composition--
- Composition that things are made out of.
- All right. - Good question.
- So let's see, Dudeisdudette wants to know,
is there a sample return plan for lunar water?
- Hmm. - Yeah, that's--absolutely.
They do want to return--
- Yeah, but the question is, will it happen?
It will happen with the humans going in 2024,
because they're gonna bring samples back.
No worry, we're gonna be so excited for that.
Question is will we get a rover
to get us a sample returned before the humans?
Don't know yet. That would be awesome too.
- Okay. - Yeah.
- But we're certainly gonna get something.
- We're gonna get something, and specifically,
there's a lot of discussion about cryogenic sampling,
'cause when you sample something
that's at minus 230 degrees below centigrade,
uh, there's a lot of debate right now
whether or not you need to keep it that cold.
- Yeah. - Or do you just need
to seal it and make sure you don't lose--
as it sublimes, as it warms, and the ice is sublime--
- Yeah, I was on a mission concept
for sampling off a comet, and we had that same debate.
'Cause we're gonna bring it back to the Earth.
The question is, do you keep it in cryostorage
or do you allow it to come up to room temperature?
But then you've lost some information.
But you're right, they're gonna have to solve that issue.
I never thought about that. You're right.
If we're gonna bring back our water samples from the moon,
we're gonna have to have some sort of--
- Keep it cold. - We need a couple quarts of--
- Definitely, yeah, need a good chiller.
- Here's a good one. Can I jump in with a question?
- Go for it, Abby. - From Terminus1961.
How do you communicate with a probe down in the crater?
What are the challenges?
- So this is kind of a really interesting point.
A dark crater does not mean
we can't see into the crater from Earth.
- Ah, good point.
- So in one instance,
you can use what's called direct-to-Earth communication.
That's where-- it's what we did to Apollo.
- Or in this case, it's direct-to-Gateway.
- Or Earth. Or Earth. - Or Earth, that's true.
Or Earth, depending on the geometry, yes.
- Exactly, right, right.
So in some instances, yes, you can see Earth
from a PSR, from the floor
of a permanently shadowed region or crater.
Other instances, you'll be able
to look up overhead and see Gateway.
- Yeah. - So you can relay.
You can look straight up and talk to a relay satellite
or Gateway. - Okay.
- But they've also talked about having repeaters.
So some of these commercial service providers
aren't just talking about providing landed services
that can take you to the moon,
but they're also talking about setting up infrastructure
on the moon, like telecom.
- A telephone, telecoms. - WiFi. So a lot of the--
- You can have WiFi on the moon.
- The commercial landers that are going actually will
communicate with the small rovers and whatnot with WiFi.
And they're actually talking about both communication,
power, all kinds of relay systems,
building infrastructure to actually assist
in the exploration and science and build that.
- That's cool, yeah. - Mm-hmm.
- We've been talking about all these challenges,
and you guys sound confident that we're gonna figure it out,
but we're gonna need a lot of help, right?
So there might be people listening
who want to get in on that.
So do you guys have an answer
for what's a good way to prepare to help NASA
tackle these challenges down the road?
- One thing is it's important to note
that this isn't going back
to put a new footprint on the moon and then come home.
It really is to be a sustained presence
that is with an open architecture,
as Kimberly described.
So it's involving everybody from the commercial side
to industry, governments, foreign NASA agencies,
all NASA agencies.
So I really do think we're
at a dawn of a new age of exploration,
and so the opportunities are gonna be incredible and vast
in terms of being able to participate,
not only within a government agency to get into space,
but you could now go work at a company
and get into space. - Yeah.
- And eventually, I do not doubt that
there won't only be NASA astronauts.
There will be corporate astronauts.
- Interesting.
- We're gonna need people who know how to build things
and fix things and improve things.
- Exactly, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.
- And keep an infrastructure going.
- So basically saying you can do anything and help--
- Just everything from business to engineering to science--
- Yeah. - To medicine, to you know--
- Even to philosophy and the law.
I mean, this opens up an entire new area
of international law, interplanetary law
that we haven't even begun to scratch really.
- And it's the basis of becoming
a spacefaring civilization.
- Yeah. - That's what's next.
- Yep, we're there. - Exciting.
We're there, all right.
Well, that is all the time we have for today.
So a huge thanks to you guys, our guests,
and to everyone who joined us in the Twitch chat
with your amazing questions.
We will be back on Thursday, July 18,
when we talk about 50th anniversary
of the Apollo moon landing.
And then tune in the next day, Friday, July 19,
for a special live broadcast
from NASA Centers across the country
celebrating the Apollo 50th as we go forward to the moon.
So more info on that, go to www.nasa.gov/apollo50,
and we will see you next time.
Thanks for watching.
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